this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
129 points (97.1% liked)

politics

19144 readers
5980 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Similar improvements for Trump among younger voters were cited in CNN's 2024 exit polling of more than 22,000 voters. In the last election, Biden beat Trump in this demographic by 23 points. This year, Harris' lead over Trump among those aged 18 to 29 was 13 points, a 10-point dip in the key demographic.

top 41 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 7 points 1 hour ago

I've been sus about people proclaiming that somehow certain "generations" (we all would do well to remember that the idea of "generations" is a rather suspect one: https://www.vox.com/2016/3/21/11277726/millennials-adam-conover) were somehow just inherently better, more savvy and media aware than their elders. There is no reason to believe that just because you were on the 'net since you were a baby, and had smart phones nearly your entire life that you are somehow immune to all logical fallacies inherent in such things.

I for one am not buying it. If anything, boomers, Gen X, and millennials have set up platforms and have been influencing people in the Gen Z age range (as well as Gen Alpha) to buy into totally toxic, moronic and just plain wrong things. Someone is watching all that algorithmic content, and it's not all Gen-X or boomers or even all Gen Y.

Whether it's to buy into qanon/pizzagate bullshit, or buy into tankie narratives about "genocide joe" so that they either flat out vote for a dirtbag like the convicted felon, or vote third party, or sit at home, all of those outcomes help the Republicans. If the Republicans can capture these people young, they'll have them consumers for life - just like other brands strive to do.

[–] Dkarma@lemmy.world 8 points 2 hours ago

They fucked themselves. Trump will absolutely further the killing of the planet with reckless abandon.

[–] spector@lemmy.ca 16 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (2 children)

I've been saying this for a long time. Before Trump even. The left could not rely on liberal youth defaultism forever. I hate being right.

What really drove it home the direness was nobody else has been seeing it. Culturally younger people are just different some how. I mean every generation has its idiosyncrasies but people just couldn't get past that idea. Sounded like I was speaking in tongues to them I'm sure.

I could not put my finger on it. It's not the current slate of political issues like housing or whatever. It predates this. I used to chalk it up to internet skull fucking kids minds in ways the older generations cannot grasp.

I had hoped the political mega minds would be able to hone in on these things. Turns out they're all fucking clueless. Just winging it.

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 2 points 42 minutes ago

Yes. It's shit like Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson and Youtube and Facebook and Tiktok and so much more...boomers had their parents yelling at them about the "boob tube", but the algorithmic skew is soooo much more insidious than even the worst television could have hoped to be.

It's rather common to point this out these days, but people talk about experiments where you spin up a new VM (use Proxmox or what have you, or maybe use a container even), and just click into Youtube and let it run its course....and they get pushed toward right wing content eventually.

I sure do wish that Gen Y, Gen Z, Gen-A and whatever is coming next are somehow smarter, immune to the usual emotional strings that are pulled, know how to spot logical fallacies better than anyone that came before, are more auto didactic, and actually know how to "do your own research" more than anyone that came before....but my cynical self knows that is just wishful thinking. Without a stellar liberal education, they'll be just as prone to the manipulation as any other set of people.

[–] asmoranomar@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Everything has to be a meme. Lower taxes, healthcare, or racism isn't exciting. Couches, weird, eating pets and out of context outbursts get way more engagement. Mostly, because people have given up.

[–] spector@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

I don't think they've given up because the issues the care about matter to them but it has to be communicated in the form of inside joke meme-speak. Republicans seem to have cracked this nearly a decade ago. That's how long a head start they've got on Democrats. By now they've thoroughly indoctrinated a generation with their own baseline.

I think what's breaking older peoples minds is how far fetched all of this is. Not only do the kids speak in coded language. They cannot be reached by speaking normally to them. You have to use the codes.

[–] asmoranomar@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Keep in mind that part of the reason I think they've given up is because there's no reason to believe the promises made will ever be delivered. They may care about taxes, but you'd probably get more engagement by making an AI generated tiktok video of a dinner table splayed with food in the image of rich oligarchs. There just isn't much left but the jokes, it's not code - it's that if everything is going to be bullshit, it might as well be entertaining.

[–] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 61 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

Anyone who hasn't read Kill all Normies by Angela Nagle, buy a copy (and ignore the name, it's anti-Trump). It's written about the first Trump election but seems more relevant now than in 2017.

The Right was able to weaponize online spaces far better than the Left, against all conventional wisdom that the Dems were the party of the young people and the Repubs for the older ones.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 7 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

I hear Hamas is modeling their insurgency after the vietnamese, so I'm reading Kill Anything That Moves about how the US prosecuted counter insurgency operation in vietnam, and why and how they won.

We should probably all start reading and prepping about how to keep safe under unsafe regimes.

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 1 points 39 minutes ago

Is that book anything like Killing Hope by William Blum?

[–] errer@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Does anyone have another Kill the ______ book recommendation so I can complete the trifecta?

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 1 points 39 minutes ago

Killing Hope, by William Blum.

[–] NevermindNoMind@lemmy.world 21 points 6 hours ago (3 children)

Great, now I'm at the point of the post election grief cycle where I'm getting a bunch of books to try to figure out what happened. I remember this phase from 2016. Thanks for the recommendation for my list!

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 1 points 38 minutes ago

Check out Democracy in Chains.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 12 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

It's convenient that they're already all written because we're repeating history.

[–] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 6 points 6 hours ago

It's really short, I read the entire thing last night, but it probes into the right-wing online space deeper than any other scholarly resource I've read.

[–] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 43 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (2 children)

Yeah, Gen Z had better not talk about the lack of housing or how hard it is to make a living again after this. Whatever happens, you all made your bed and you best hope that you're getting what you voted for.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world -3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Typical boomer leadership. You lot shit the bed trying to take bribes and sell everyone out, then blame everyone but yourselves when you end up failing at literally everything, as if every Democrat owed you compliance with your horrific BS.

The democratic party lost ground in literally every single demographic thats measured, but you want to finger point as if one group is to blame. None of you should be in charge of anything.

When will you learn that the party was a coalition and that you dont have the power to go it alone and succeed, hrm? And that the right wingers are not your friends, and reaching across the aisle to people who want plainly evil outcomes is not some sort of virtue-- it just makes you weak and prone to lose. You have to make people want to come to you, no make deals to sell out your own to entice them onboard.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 27 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

We need a lot of stickers that say "Trump 2024 - You Did This" put it on gas pumps, in front of stores, hospitals...

[–] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 29 points 7 hours ago

Honestly they'll probably provide massive subsidies to the oil companies to lower the price of gas while preserving the 2017 tax cuts and proposing more for rich people while Gen Z'ers will lose their college forgiveness but get a very temporary, very low tax cut.

[–] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 12 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Apparently young Americans don't want a future.

[–] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago

I'm sure they do. Shame they chose poorly.

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 17 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

Basically democrats are losing: the youth, minorities, and the working class. They're gaining among white college-educated. They're also mildly gaining among women, but they were already the party of choice for non-white women. Crazy to see the democrats becoming the party of white privilege.

[–] skvlp@lemm.ee 18 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

When the initial disbelief wears off a little it becomes more clear that the democrats are not a very good alternative for people. If they were they should have won this by a landslide. Their current path seems like a dead end and they need some new thoughts.

[–] superkret@feddit.org 1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (5 children)

This is a global problem, too.
The majority just wants bread, and all the left offers is morality.

[–] djsoren19@yiffit.net 7 points 3 hours ago

Maybe your left, I think the global left is trying to offer a lot more than that. Don't conflate Dems with useful politicians.

[–] emax_gomax@lemmy.world 12 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Tbf, Democrats are centrist not left. It's just us politics collectively is so right leaning you folks don't have a real representative left leaning 3rd party. A real left party would institute policies to give everyone access to bread (so long as it isn't in short supply). It's absurd a country as big and rich as the US has such poor social support programs.

[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 1 points 1 hour ago

Half a century of sabre-rattling and proxy wars with another superpower with an opposing ideology will do that to a country. It's going to take a long time before "socialism" isn't a dirty word here, if ever. The Cold War fucked us, ideologically. We still cling to raw capitalism like the Bolsheviks are hiding around every corner. This stuff is still huge in living memory, my own included. As a kid spending my childhood under Ronald Reagan, I'd often hear about the Berlin wall and how it was being used to keep people from escaping to the West. Which is true, yes, but it was definitely also used as a propaganda tool here, a showcase of what "socialist thinking" can bring.

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 3 points 4 hours ago

Morality is easy in some sense, it just requires thinking to figure it out, and in practice being the moral choice when the other side is this bad requires doing basically nothing at all. Retooling the economy to increase the wealth of average people, directly against the forces of the already wealthy seeking to suck up all the available wealth for themselves, is both much harder and requires being given an amount of power that's rarely won these days.

[–] skvlp@lemm.ee 6 points 6 hours ago

Absolutely. And nobody seems able to stop the trend. We’re in dire need of some good thinking right now.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world -5 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

all the left offers is morality.

Gun waving, immigrant banning, genocide supporting, is.. morality?

[–] terrifyingtuba@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

Dems lost among the white college educated this cycle.

[–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)