this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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The world’s top chess federation has ruled that transgender women cannot compete in its official events for females until an assessment of gender change is made by its officials.

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[–] NewEnglandRedshirt@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Wow. The argument against trans women in sports is already unscientific enough. Why is chess even split into gendered categories? This just makes zero sense.

[–] binkster@lemm.ee 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It is generally not, most tournaments anyone can enter. However, there are women-only tournaments because for a lot of social and historical reasons, men dominate the open tournaments.

Interesting side-note fact on the power of social norms: if a woman and man play without knowing each other’s gender the woman will be more likely to win than she would if either party is made aware.

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

All the more reason to include trans and nonbinary people then. Blur the lines. Drag should also be encouraged.

[–] Squids@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Fuck it we should do the masked singer thing for chess. Masked grandmaster!

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

Seriously, a lot of people would play better chess if they weren't intimidated by their opponent. Unless you consider headology part of the game, the way it is in poker and Cripple-Mister-Onion.

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Good thing trans-women haven't ever faced any historical or social oppression /s

[–] Lmaydev@programming.dev 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I believe it's done mainly to encourage women to play. More than any genetic differences like other sports.

I feel like as it makes very little difference, so letting trans people play either doesn't really matter.

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Except it's going to discourage AMAB women from playing, so that excuse for this bigoted policy doesn't hold water

[–] elscallr@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why are cheese tournaments even gendered to begin with?

[–] Squids@sopuli.xyz 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because different genders taste cheese differently obviously duh. Don't want to give them NBs an unfair advantage in the Roquefort round

(Serious answer - I think it's to try and combat entrenched sexism in the sport? There aren't many women in chess and by making a space explicitly for them you hopefully create a safe space that can encourage more women to take up the pursuit. As it's a social perspective thing, AGAB therefore really shouldn't matter because the point is to go "look women!" Not "women are inherently better/worse and so we should segregate on gender")

[–] elscallr@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because different genders taste cheese differently obviously duh.

I've heard it is possible to fascinate a woman by giving her a piece of cheese.

[–] CoderKat@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

It's true. Cheese is extremely fascinating. Please give me cheese.

[–] Sarsoar@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago

To add to squids answer: There isn't a segregated mens and womens category. There is an open category and a women's only category.

What happened in the open category is that because the societal pressures and social constructs that disincentivized young girls to play, women weren't placing high in the open category. (Because top players end up being top players because they started when thwy were 5) This leads to a feedback loop where young girls see less women in the sport and get reinforced that it is not for them so don't pick it up at a young age, so less persue it and get good, so less women are seen at high levels, etc.

So then comes the women's category to combat women not feeling like they belong in that space. Women can compete in both the open and women's categories.

But because it is an intellectual thing mostly, barring transgender women is ridiculous. In athletic sports you could almost try to argue that a woman that went through male puberty could be stronger(ignoring how estrogen weakens them and they cannot compete in the men's category anymore). You could try to make that argument in athletic sports (and it is a different discussion to this) and almost seem logically consistently on the surface level if you don't think about it any further than your fox news talking points, but what is the argument here? If a woman went through a male puberty they were possibly socialized as male and weren't told as a kid that chess wasn't for them and so they have an intellectual advantage over cis women?

I don't get it. It seems like, just with athletic sports, it is not about the sanctity of the sport or about fairness, it is about banning trans people from public spaces and policing what women can be.

[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How is gender even relevant in chess?

[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

it isn't. the main league and FIDE scoring have no such restrictions. the women's scoring and events were created separately because chess is heavily dominated by men for whatever reason. i think trans women can compete in the main events which are not gender restricted, just as non-trans women are welcome to.

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

So what's their plan when someone accuses their opponent of being AMAB to try to get them DQ'd?

Oof. Fucking FIDE. Trans women should be able to compete in the women's sections.

About the gender gap - the gender gap in performance is a statistical relic of the participation gap. Control for participation and the performance gap vanishes.

Women's sections exist to help promote participation and competition in that cohort. Its the same reason junior sections for kids exist, senior sections for older adults exist, and ratings limited sections like U1200 and U1500 exist.

Unlike other sports, a trans person would have no physiological advantage or disadvantage competing across gendered sections.

[–] jmp242@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago

Unlike many other sports, I honestly don't see how chess is impacted by gender, nor why we'd have different leagues other than legacy historical strangeness. If I were king for a day, I'd just get rid of gendered leagues for chess. Everyone plays in an open league.

[–] qwertychomp@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

The fact that this is a stupid thing to do aside, what does "assessment of gender change" even mean? Like, are they gonna go hand you a quiz to find out how "wOmAnLiKe" you are or something