this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
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Looks like my account was banned/restricted for the above interaction, have already sent the mods on world an email asking if they'd be willing to reverse that. Had an episode of psychosis a few months ago where I did say some offensive stuff, (understandably) got a 3 month ban on .lol for that, so could see my account having been flagged.

I uh, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect people to check others profiles to ensure we are correctly pronouning them… when making a throw away comment that is less than 10 words involving a ludicrously common saying. Jerboa does not show users pronouns. I could switch to an app that DOES show the pronouns, do any Lemmings have a recommendation for a free Lemmy mobile app that has that feature?

Edit: Edie chimed in, Jerboa does show pronouns. It's a formatting issue with mobile vs browser (She has them on individual text lines so they don't appear on mobile).

Was just going to respond to the user in question to let them know I wasn't purposefully trying to offend that individual, to discover I'm not able to post or make comments on world now, so figured I'd see what y'alls opinion on the matter is.

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 107 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

You weren't misgendering; you were meming. Modifying one part of "the man, the myth, the X" to adapt it to the situation is fine and good, but when you start swapping out too much of it ("the X, the myth, the Y" -- or worse, "the X, the Y, the Z") you lose the reference.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 44 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah that's my thought. It's an expression. I've said things like "c'mon man" to people IRL I know to be women, without complaint. If I was using the word "man" in this kind of way and the person I was saying it to asked me not to, I would of course respect their wishes and stop doing it to them, but I've not seen it happen before.

But a third person coming in to whinge when the person I was talking to had no complaint? 🙄

(As a side note, with this specific expression I quite like the alternative of "the ma'am…". That helps it scan exactly the same as the original phrase.)

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[–] tyler@programming.dev 69 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Doesn’t really matter here. The saying is “the man, the myth, the legend”. If you go changing every part of it you might as well have not said anything at all because it won’t make any sense.

[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.org 18 points 1 week ago

The Ma'am the myth the legend is right there though :D

[–] thepreciousboar@lemm.ee 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Agree. Some expressions become so iconic they get genderless. Just like sometimes it's accept to use "man" and "dude" as a genderless exclamation

[–] weker01@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I once got a temporary ban on another platform for arguing/suggesting that dude has become genderless.

I know multiple woman that use "dude" that way, but some people are somewhat understandably sensitive on the topic of gender.

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[–] r00ty@kbin.life 49 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'm probably a bit further to the right than most on the fediverse with this opinion but...

I think, once you have been informed of someone's pronouns, it's flat out rude to not use them. I don't know if it's a banning issue but that's for the moderators on your instance to decide or the instance the community is on. Even if you don't agree with someone's lifestyle, it's just polite to address people the way they'd like to be addressed.

But surely there's a difference between intentional misuse and accidental. I think banning someone for not looking up someone's pronouns before a public interaction seems like pushing things a bit far here. I certainly am not checking such things. But, then in general when online I will use gender neutral wording because frankly, for online interactions someone's rarely information that matters for the interaction. I don't really need to know.

My view is, I think it is almost always clear when someone is being malicious and thus transphobic and when someone makes an honest mistake/did not know better. We, as a whole, really should be differentiating between obviously malicious and non-malicious cases.

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[–] BudgetBandit@sh.itjust.works 43 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Rule #21 of the internet: everyone is a guy

Addition 1: every women is actually a guy

Addition 2: every kid is an 18+ guy

Addition 3: little girls are FBI Agents

[–] borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What about the dogs on the Internet? I thought everyone was actually a dog.

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[–] Vanth@reddthat.com 41 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Usually when I make a mistake while trying to act in good faith, I apologize. Posting about the interaction without apology and flashing names of non-mods involved is not the way to correct your mistake, nor to garner sympathy.

[–] ToucheGoodSir@lemy.lol 17 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I did apologize to the mod I emailed. Not looking for sympathy, frankly I was more interested from a technical perspective as to why her pronouns aren't showing on Jerboa, but they were on the browser.

[–] Edie@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 week ago

Browsers will collapse white space, line breaks are converted to spaces.

Jerboa does not collapse white space, and instead rendered the display name with the line breaks. But, one possible reason is that, the area for usernames/display names can only display 1 line, so all of the pronouns got cut off.

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[–] korthrun@lemmy.sdf.org 34 points 1 week ago

I'm not even interested in the username of the person I'm responding to. I tend to ignore it completely unless there's a comment like "lol, username checks out".

There are very few times I will bother to check someones profile. They have to either say something so awesome that I want to see more, or have given a take so hot I want to see if they're trolling or if this is standard behaviour for them.

While it looks like the whole Jerboa/"miscommunication" thing has been sorted out here I want to chime in to say that no, I don't think that checking profiles for anything is a reasonable expectation.

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 33 points 1 week ago (2 children)

If somebody corrects you about gender, just say woops, correct yourself, and move on. It's an honest mistake, a simple fix, and nobody should be offended. Especially online. If they are still offended, it's because they want to be.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think the issue here is that it wasn't a case of "somebody corrects you about their gender". It was "a third unrelated person comes in and rudely yells at you that you should have already known not to use a turn of phrase".

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[–] dumbass@leminal.space 33 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

You are supposed to do deep research on the person you're commenting to....

I barely even read usernames, plus Voyager App doesn't show profile bios, so even if I wanted to check their profile I can't and I'm sure as fuck not using the mobile website to get the information.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Same. Voyager doesn't show it, I'll do my best, but I'm not going to feel bad when I miss

[–] dumbass@leminal.space 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's why I just stick with they/them, anyone who gets annoyed about me using that isn't worth the energy, it's an anonymous message board, I don't know you, that's my purse!

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee 11 points 1 week ago

Remember kids, moron is a genderless word that can be applied to anyone!

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[–] krolden@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Just stop using gender specific pronouns at all. Makes things much simpler

[–] borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This is what I try to do. This has been made slightly more difficult after “they” became a pronoun in its own right. I’ve only had one person get upset by my using “they” before knowing their preferred pronouns though, and when my intent was clarified it was fine. But like damn what other default pronoun exists? I guess this is what getting old feels like, it’s not like Iwant to be a boomer about this.

[–] Edie@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I use they/them as a default. I'll catch myself in using them and go "wait, what is this persons pronouns" and check, on platforms like Lemmy that have it, their display name for pronouns, and if there aren't any, then bio. If neither have any pronouns I'll use they/them. If there are pronouns I will not use they/them unless listed.

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[–] juliebean@lemm.ee 8 points 1 week ago

i find this very easy on lemmy, in english. i'm usually talking to folks more than about them. if i do want to talk about someone, i'll check their profile, or default to 'they' if data is lacking, but it's a rare enough thing so as to be little burden.

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 23 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I never check usernames or comments. It is about the conversation at hand.

I assume sone people are sensitive of pronouns if they have transitioned or altered their pronouns, but simple catch phrases should not get you banned--if it was clearly not harrassment.

I try to be cautious of gendering and use they/them when possible, but also i feel individual people need to realize the world does not revolve around just them as an egocentric bubble, and sometime shit happens and you have to deal with your feelings about it, and either A) ask for what you need, or B) move on. Having mods protect your feelings for a perceived slight does not prepare you for the outside world of actual interaction with humans.

Again, anyone please don't take this as condoning purposeful harassment, bullying of those not in the boomer view of gender. I grew up as a cismale that did not follow the normal idea of what a boy or man is. I was the artsy, poetry type that had mostly female friends. This caused toxic males to label me gay. Cuz gay to hang out with women, LOL.

On a funny note my as a bearded man standing at the pharmacy counter, my pharmaciat called me "Sir Or Madame" as one phrase. They clearly had just taken a course on inclusivity, or have something in them that made them respond per the exact script corporate presented. There wasn't even a need to address me with an honorific, they could have just said Next, or I can help you now.

[–] Apytele@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (12 children)

I'm pretty apathetic to gender in general but I've had gender confirming surgery to be NB which I guess technically makes me trans and to be prefectly honest I've never felt more judged for it than by the lemmy LGBTQ+ community. The 50y/o southern man that was my nursing supervisor back when I was a new graduate was more respectful of my gender and lived experiences than these people. Honestly the thing they seem to hate most is specifically me expressing apathy for gender; I've mentioned that my transness expresses itself by not caring about the whole pronoun thing or needing to have any specific pronouns for myself personally, but that I understand it's a matter of respect for others and I've literally gotten banned for saying that. Like almost exactly that. They're absolutely hateful bastards for no reason other than that they're upset and need everybody else to be upset too. I'm lucky I have a handful of supportive people irl because I sure asf wasn't gonna find it here!

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[–] tobogganablaze@lemmus.org 22 points 1 week ago
[–] ClassifiedPancake@discuss.tchncs.de 21 points 1 week ago (8 children)

I don’t think it’s necessary to check every profile for potential pitfalls when interacting with them. But honestly, in this case there is an obvious transgender flag in the profile name that should make you at least question your first assumption.

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[–] Pandantic@midwest.social 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

No, if they want to be gendered appropriately, they should have it in their username.

[–] erin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

It did. OP's client doesn't display it. It's pure miscommunication.

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[–] BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz 14 points 1 week ago

Nah it can’t be expected

[–] 2kool4idkwhat@lemdro.id 14 points 1 week ago

I generally just use gender neutral language. I would check the person's bio before using a phrase like that tho, especially if they have a trans flag emoji in their name

That being said, getting banned/restricted for that comment alone seems a bit extreme to me tho

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I know that for some people it's quite a struggle. Whether it is their focus, lazyness, energy levels, unwillingness during their toilet time or something else.

So, I'd say no. That's part of why I usually just go for they/them. Just like when you don't know someone's pronouns irl

[–] semperverus@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Then there are those of us who grew up in an era where usernames either didn't matter or didn't exist (depending on the platform), so you quickly became conditioned to just not reading their name let alone clicking into their whole account to see who they are. I am guilty of it, but people looking at your profile is creepy.

I know that on Reddit before I left, the only time I ever took a good hard look at someone else's account is if they said something that made me so unbelievably angry that I had to look at everything else they said to find something to clap back with. By the time I would get partway through their post history, I would realize that I let a random stranger on the internet tilt me and then I'd calm down and feel stupid for a while before going back to my own business.

We are all strangers on the internet. Let's keep it that way.

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[–] communism@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I think you shouldn't assume everyone on the internet to be a man. It is misogynistic. I don't think there would be anything wrong with e.g. referring gender neutrally to someone who turns out to be a woman because you didn't check her profile which says she's a woman, but it is annoying to see people assume everyone on the internet to be male. I've especially experienced this in more techy communities which definitely seems like sexist stereotyping to me.

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[–] zecg@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Just stop giving a fuck, there's a metric shitton of crazies doing janny work, it's unpaid and very unsatisfying. If they ban you, it's either their instance's loss or nobody's. The account costs nothing because it's worth next to nothing. I don't even need the links that I myself post and the others' I can see even if they ban my account. This is a shitpile, it being in the fediverse doesn't make it less of a shitpile.

If they don't list their pronouns and i can't tell by their speech i just go neutral. Checking profiles for gender is definitely not considered necessary in the circles i run in. If poster doesn't make it clear and doesn't have pronouns listed honest mistakes will be made and forgiven

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