this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2024
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Showerthoughts

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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The best ones are thoughts that many people can relate to and they find something funny or interesting in regular stuff.

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If we knew how to create world simulation, and how to make it working 4D, then humans would be able to plug themselves in, and experience 4D space. Alternatively there could simulated 4D beings, whose sentience could be transferred to robot body in our real 3D space.

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[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 10 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

There's nothing technically stopping us from simulating 4 spatial dimensions now. In fact, there are several games that utilize a 4th dimension in their gameplay. Here's 8 examples. The problem is that our brains evolved in 3 spatial dimensions and, even if we can conceive of, define the nature of, and to some degree even indirectly imagine a 4th spacial dimension, our brains are hardwired to think in 3 dimensions and our understanding of a 4th spatial dimension can only be in 3 dimensional terms. The software of our brains, and the hardware of our eyes are simply incapable of perceiving and processing a 4th spatial dimension as it truly is. It would always be filtered through the lens of 3 spatial dimensions, projected into a 3 dimensional form that we can understand.

For a good example of this limitation, we regularly show 3 dimensions in film, tv, animations, video games, etc. projected on 2 dimensional surfaces. We can interpret those 2 dimensional images into an understanding of the 3 dimensional spaces being projected, but A) we do not actually perceived them as 3d. We still only see height and width. Depth is imagined largely based on perceived scale and parallax oocclusion. and B) we are only able to see the 3 dimensional space in our minds because that is how our minds always perceive space. In order to make those 2 dimensional images seem actually 3 dimensional, we have to project different 2 dimensional images to each eye with precise focal lengths and angles to mimic our actual eyesight in 3 dimensional space. Only with that stereoscopic view do we actually see 3 dimensionality with actual depth. Now, with that understanding, that it takes 2 projections in 2d to trick our minds into seeing 3d, how would you trick our perception into seeing 4d? How to we make either our eyes or our brains see whatever the 4th dimensional direction is called? A 3rd eye? No, plenty of animals have more than 3 eyes or even compound eyes, and still only perceive 3d. We have to perceive a direction perpendicular to height, width, and depth that does not actually exist. How would you achieve that goal?

I don't think that is actually possible. I think, like those games in the link, even in a simulation we are stuck playing with the 4th dimension via its interaction with and projection onto 3 dimensions because our brains cannot truly process what a 4th spatial dimension would even be.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee -2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

There’s no reason why a brain can’t interact with 4 dimensional space. You just have to feed accurate 4D data into the brain and it will learn.

[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 1 points 23 minutes ago

Interact with, yes. Process and perceive it as it truly is? I don't believe so, no.

[–] Eldest_Malk@lemmy.world 19 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

We already experience 4D; our fourth dimension is time.

[–] LambdaRX@sh.itjust.works 14 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

It's correct, but I meant spatial dimensions.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 12 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

There are some 4d experimental games. One is a space flight Sim that allows players to move in a fourth dimension, entering and exiting physical space in a semi physics-compatible way. It's really fun and it tends to break your brain a little.

[–] jewbacca117@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago (1 children)
[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Itch io has several, I can't find the name of the one I tried like 10 years ago. It was just a proof of concept, a freespace like fighter.

[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 2 points 3 hours ago

There's also one that turns Minecraft into 4 dimensions, or it at least cribs the aesthetic of Minecraft. I forget which. It's been a few years.

[–] superkret@feddit.org 5 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

According to some physics theories, we're living in a world with at least 11 dimensions.
But we can only sense and understand 3.

[–] Daxter101@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 3 hours ago

Fyi, string theory, which is a popular, well known theory that assumes 11 dimensions, doesn't really have that much appeal in the scientific community. It's still fun to talk about tho

[–] greedytacothief@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago

Can you just imagine how insufferable 4d tech bros would be? Yeah I'll pass

[–] pruwybn@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I'd recommend checking out 4d Toys - I believe it is compatible with VR so you could sort of do what you're describing.

[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

You are correct that 4d toys (and other games) already simulate 4 spatial dimensions. But those games all display the 4th dimensional space from a 3 dimensional projection. I think what OP is suggesting is creating a game that displays an actual 4 spatial dimensions. I have argued in another comment that I don't think this is possible in a way that our brains could ever percieve or process due to the limitations of a brain evolved in 3 spatial dimensions.

[–] r00ty@kbin.life 1 points 8 minutes ago

The subject of how humans might perceive four dimensional space is covered in a later book of three body novels (Remembrance of earth's past series). The author describes is as being able to see into sealed three-dimensional objects as if they had an open top. As such you could easily traverse into sealed rooms etc from such a perspective.

I thought it was quite an interesting idea.

[–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

What exactly are you defining the 4th dimension as...?

[–] LambdaRX@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (2 children)

Another space dimension, which has same relation to our three X Y Z dimensions, as third dimension Z relation to X Y.

For clarity the word is perpendicularity. A 4th spatial dimension would have to be perpendicular to all 3 other spatial dimensions.

[–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 2 points 3 hours ago

Ah I understand you now, I was confused about you not specifying space when referring to 4D, mb.

[–] Banichan@dormi.zone -1 points 3 hours ago

We would have to experience 4D to emulate it.