this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2023
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Asklemmy

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[–] shawnshitshow@sopuli.xyz 55 points 1 year ago (20 children)

despite what "free speech" absolutists would like to believe, the vast majority of the world does not wish to tolerate hate, racism, and bigotry. refusing to accept these is not suppression, it's maintaining healthy and welcoming communities.

it's no different than swimming pools having a basic "no shitting in the pool" policy. if you want to shit in the pool, you are going to have to go swim with others that are ok with swimming in shitty water.

with that said, I hear exploding-heads may be what you're looking for

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[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 36 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Most instances do. What do you feel like you cant say?

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[–] DetectiveKakuna@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Try Xitter for that. It's going great for them

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[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why don’t you just share with the class exactly what you think you should be allowed to say instead of being so oddly cryptic.

I mean, my instance has rules and I enforce them. Should I not be permitted to do that?

All I hear from this is a snowflake upset about the fact that they can’t use “basic slurs” (whatever the hell that means) without facing repercussions. Imagine that. People disliking the use of offensive words towards the underprivileged. The audacity.

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[–] LapGoat@pawb.social 25 points 1 year ago (12 children)

yeah sure, just reply to my comment with a list of the things you want to be able to say that you cant say here and ill point you in the right direction.

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[–] Emperor@feddit.uk 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I doubt there are truly any. Even on the free speech advocating instances, I imagine if you started posting terrorist threats and/or scat porn you'd quickly find their limits on free speech (bonus points for combining the two in one post).

If you just want to say nasty things about minorities (which these kinds of posts are often code for) or hype some crypto scam then there are instances for that.

[–] NewEnglandRedshirt@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

bonus points for combining the two in one post

Two terrorists one cup?

[–] Emperor@feddit.uk 6 points 1 year ago

Congratulations, you win one Internet.

[–] greyscale@lemmy.sdf.org 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In the same vein as "States rights to do what?", I want to ask: Free speech to say what?

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[–] Dirk@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There cannot be "free speech" instances because every instance (or more generally speaking: any online community) I am aware of that claims to be "free speech" ends up being an alt-right echo chamber, a platform for hate speech, or a site to share questionable pornographic content.

Unfortunately you need moderation if your Internet platform is open to the public.

[–] ristoril_zip@lemmy.zip 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The people who make these posts looking for "free speech" are really looking for no consequence speech. They like to pretend they're fans of the town square but ignore the fact that people can get run out of the town square, they can get shouted down in the town square, and they can get drowned out by the others in the town square.

They want to be able to say hateful things without being accountable for their hate. That's not free speech as envisioned by anyone who is an actual advocate of open society or free speech.

What we have on Lemmy is probably the closest thing we'll ever get to a public square in the Internet. Someone can go and say their hateful thing. Then they can get run out of the instance they're on and go find another one. If they say hateful things and get run out of there, they can find another one. Who knows, one day they might find an instance full of like minded hateful people who don't run them out. Of course, they're likely to find that instance is not federated very well or broadly. Much like people from non racist towns don't like to have much to do with towns widely known to be full of racists.

[–] Dirk@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

... and if they can't find a town square where they can spew their hate, they can still found their own town!

The people who make these posts looking for “free speech” are really looking for no consequence speech

This is why I intentionally use "free speech" instead of free speech. Free speech is important and and essential part of every society.

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[–] dan1101@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Freedom of speech is for the government, not privately run servers. This sounds like a Republican not wanting people to disagree with him. That's fine but maybe try 4chan or that trump twitter site?

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[–] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

care to elaborate on that?

[–] PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago (8 children)
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[–] CountZero@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This dude actually said what he wanted in another thread. He wants an instance that tolerates "basic slurs." It's hilarious and sad how obvious it is that these "free speech" people are just racist. https://lemmy.kde.social/comment/497886

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[–] sylver_dragon@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One great thing about Lemmy, you can always start your own instance. However, I strongly suspect that you will quickly find your instance defederated from just about every major instance. The thing is, that "free speech" doesn't mean other people have to put up with anything you say. It does mean that you are free to go about saying whatever you want and are free from prior Government restraint on your speech. That isn't completely without limits however, making specific or terroristic threats have generally been ruled to not be protected speech. You can also be held accountable, after the fact, for the effects of your speech.

For example, you are free to yell "fire" in a crowded theater, no matter how many people incorrectly state otherwise. And, in fact, if there is a fire in said theater, you really should. However, if you yell "fire" in a crowded theater, with the intention to cause panic, and that panic results in injury or death, you will be held accountable for your negligence. It's not the speech which is illegal, it's the negligence. Government limitation on speech has to be very narrow and have a vary good reason for doing so. That's a high bar which many laws have failed to meet.

All that is to say, "free speech" is about Government action, not private action. Once you are on my property, I don't have to tolerate your speech. If you show up on my front lawn and start screaming "I hate puppies!", it's my right to tell you to get the fuck off my property. And, the police will assist me in enforcing that right. Though, at that point the issue is trespass and not your speech. There is some limiting of my property rights when I am operating as a commercial entity; but, telling someone to leave, because I don't like what they are saying, is not among those limitations. Technically, I could run a store front and tell anyone to leave who states "Nazi's are bad". Yes, they are objectively right, but it's my property and I can restrict speech on my property in that way. The same logic applies to online forums.

That brings us around to your request and later response to someone asking about the limitations you dislike:

Doesn’t seem true, most instances have a long list or rules and doesn’t seem to tolerate basic slurs

So ya, that's not a "free speech" issue. The Government isn't doing anything to you. It's just that no one wants to be around you. You've decided to act in a way which many of the major Lemmy instance owners don't want on their servers. And it's their right to tell you to leave. Maybe, instead of looking for a Lemmy instance to support your anti-social behavior, take some time to reflect on why it seems that you are being isolated. As the old saw goes:

If everyone around you seems to be an asshole, try looking in a mirror.

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[–] CAPSLOCKFTW@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Free speech does not mean that you can say anything. You can't break the rights of others by using your own rights. For example, racial slurs violate human rights of those targeted by them.

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[–] atlasraven31@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You could always create a Free Speech community and make your own rules.

[–] nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 1 year ago (7 children)

There are still a lot of caveats. For example, your server hosting provider can block you for posting objectionable content, like anti-LGBT references. If you host at home, you ISP can ban you. Then comes the domain extension. The domain extentions are controlled by some company or the other, like .com is managed by verizon, .zip is managed by Google etc. They, or the domain provider can also terminate your contract.

Onion domains may be a solution, but if you post seriously objectionable content, like leaking CIA secrets, you can expect someone to knock on your door soon.

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I think burgitt.moe and exploding heads is supposedly all about free speech. And of course the latter is now basically haven for hate speech so this is why people tend to put in rules.

[–] moobythegoldensock@geddit.social 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

All of them do. You’re free to criticize your government in them.

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