this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2023

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482

Russia spreading false claims about Qur’an burnings to harm NATO bid, says Sweden (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

35 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Defence agency says Moscow is using the protests in Stockholm to stir tensions between Arab countries and the west

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[–] Hazdaz@lemmy.world 68 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Russia at the center of a whole hell of a lot of the tension and strife that the world has gone through over the last few years.

He is trying to destabilize the West in hundreds of different way and average folks just don't understand or actually would even believe. Far right candidates in Italy, France, the US and elsewhere. Stirring of the religious pot in Sweden and a few other Europeans countries. He has an army of Russian trolls online trying to spread misinformation and propaganda. The most obvious international meddling that he's done is invade Ukraine, but there is just so much more.

This list is from 5 years ago and so much more could be added, but much of the meddling we won't really know for years to come.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/07/alleged-russian-political-meddling-documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/

[–] Hogger85b@kbin.social 46 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Brexit and trump are both russian victories

[–] Hazdaz@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Oh absolutely, but there are so many more, it's scary.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 59 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The first Quran burning event in Sweden was Paid by a party of the extreme right with Russian connections. The burning was in front of the Turkish embassy, to anger Turkey as much as possible, probably exactly to prevent Sweden from entering NATO.

So very obviously the Russians had part in it from the beginning.

[–] fidodo@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's always fucking Russia

[–] ludwig@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Which one? That stupid Dane has been burning Qurans in Sweden since before the war began.

And it's a bit misleading to say paid. It's technically true, but it is a very low amount of money that's needed for a permit. It's 50 € or something like that.

While the Russians might have encouraged it, he would have done it anyways. He just loves attention.

[–] Buffaloaf@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I thought we all assumed that's what was happening anyways

[–] gonzo0815@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

But seriously, if anything fucky is going on rn, my default is that Russia is behind it. Kinda sucks because it's just another conspiracy theory, but it fits too well not to be true most of the time. The coups going on in Niger (and Mali and Burkina Faso before) are the most obvious examples. Less obvious is the disinformation campaign in Germany (and probably all over europe) against progressive policies atm.

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I think it’s less about being against progressive policies and more about creating societal friction by supporting controversial figures and helping politicians that are pro-russia. The conservative/ alt right politics fit Russia, but more importantly those parties are often less critical of Russia (they don’t mind their anti human rights / free press autocratic tendencies as much) while also being underrated in the polls. Populistic anti-migration parties often aren’t taken seriously and rarely included in coalitions, but get a surprising amount of votes which can still be fairly useful to influence those countries.

[–] Telodzrum@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

The coup in Niger is directly tied to Russia through the Wagner group. Those assholes are neck deep in seemingly half the continent's internal strife.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

All these super well-funded intelligence agencies across the NATO alliance and not one of them can stop a bank transfer.

[+] bloodfart@lemmy.ml -12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It’s pretty easy to believably say that the Swedish government supports Quran burning when they keep issuing permits for it.

If you wanna get a little background, they keep letting this Rasmussen guy burn em as a demonstration. What is he demonstrating? Why his legitimate ethnio-nationalist political beliefs which hold that there is no place in Sweden for Muslims. If that makes you wanna vote for him, he’s got his own political party (far right, naturally).

An easy parallel is calling the government that issues the kkk a permit to march in robes racist.

It would be real simple for the swedish government to put an end to this kind of talk, they’d just have to stop issuing protest permits and police escorts to people burning Qurans.

If you don’t want your enemies to be able to say you condone hate speech, stop condoning it.

[–] jackpot@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

hate speech is free speech, i dont like it but it shouldnt be banned

[+] bloodfart@lemmy.ml -7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I didn’t suggest they ban it. The easiest way for the state to not condone hate speech is to not issue a permit to make it.

[–] brimnac@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Yeah… not sure you quite understand that goes against free speech by removing their right to speak about it if a permit is required but the government isn’t granting it… much less that a permit be required for “free speech.”

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am seeing you make a distinction but I am not seeing you list a difference. There is no point to protesting anything if you don't have people see it.

[–] bloodfart@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

Permitless speech is still possible, the speaker just won’t have the backing of the state in making it.

If the state denied a permit for this kind of demonstration the speaker could still up and decide to burn a Quran or make any other speech they see fit, they just wouldn’t have police protection and crowd control.

Given how unpopular this sentiment is in general and the various speakers’ choices of venue (Muslim neighborhoods, mosques, embassies of Muslim nations), I doubt they’d continue burning Qurans.

That’s why I phrased my initial response the way I did. The Swedish state should stop condoning that kind of speech if it doesn’t want it’s enemies to be able to accuse it of condoning that kind of speech.

Stop issuing permits, stop protecting hate speech.

[+] HERRAX@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] bloodfart@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 year ago

It’s cool, I can burn the Quran, I don’t hate Muslims, I just hate Islam, the religion and history of all Muslims. Where am I gonna burn the Quran you ask? Why, in front of a mosque, in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood or in front of the embassy of a Muslim nation. Don’t worry though, I’m doing it to show that I hate Islam, not Muslims. Pay no attention to my extensive history of speaking in racial epithets toward muslim people, my association with far right anti Muslim groups or my political party that explicitly opposes allowing muslims to live in the country. Now please provide me a police escort so I’m not torn limb from limb in the process. Why no, I certainly did not intend to incite, what ever could have given you that idea?

This is like saying people should be able to burn crosses because theyre doing it to show that they hate Christianity (or in the case of a kkk offshoot that really existed: that it’s part of their Christian worship service). No one is out here burning crosses for any reason other than to signal hate. No one is burning Qurans for any reason other than to signal hate.

We can easily prove this by looking for someone burning a Quran who isn’t aligned with a far right party that has anti Muslim ideology, hasn’t spoken out against muslims and isn’t funded by groups that are.

There of course are none, because everyone burning Qurans is doing it as a form of hate speech.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why do you need a permit?

[–] bloodfart@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

You don’t, but if you want the cops to be there to protect you from the crowd you enraged by telling them for weeks that you’re gonna burn a Quran you gotta file for that permit.