this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2024
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I want to preface this by saying that yes, I know that Instagram is bad. I am planning to get rid of it in the future but as of now I have to keep it for communication with people who are only on that platform.

So I have grapheneOS, use protonvpn (free version), use mull as my browser, and do not have google play services enabled on my phone. I do have some apps downloaded through aurora store such as Instagram, whatsapp, mychart, and mint mobile, but the rest came from f-droid.

I have noticed multiple times that after having private conversations on matrix, I get Instagram content in my feed that is scarily accurate to the conversation I had on the other platform immediately after. I know that things discussed in Instagram direct messages and group chat will give suggested content based on those conversations, but I get stuff that that is very specific to what I have ONLY discussed on matrix and didn't look up via my browser.

So my question is how is Instagram doing this and what can I do to mitigate the spying it's doing on my other apps. Thanks.

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[–] tomalley8342@lemmy.world 33 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You probably discussed it because you were aware and interested in it, and your awareness and interest showed through in your other trackable habits outside of your chatroom. You only notice when they guess your interests correctly.

[–] PetroGuy@lemmy.ca 17 points 4 months ago (7 children)

this is the real answer. unless you gave the app a bunch of permissions it shouldn't have, they cannot see what you do/say in matrix. but they don't need to. you willingly feed them enough information through location/posts/comments/private messages/friends/contacts/+a very long list of things for them you figure out your interests and serve you tailored ads.

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[–] countrypunk 2 points 4 months ago

It's more likely than not that, but I would like to err on the side of caution and figure out a way to fix it just in case my suspicion is true.

[–] Atelopus-zeteki@kbin.run 14 points 4 months ago (3 children)

whatsapp is owned by Meta. I did a quick DDG search to see if I was correct and got this:

"Meta owns several companies, including Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Messenger, Threads, Meta Quest, Horizon Worlds, Ray-Ban Stories, Mapillary, Workplace, and Portal (discontinued)."

I've been working to get the people I communicate with on Signal.app, instead. Other more informed individuals may be able to make additional suggestions.

[–] kugmo@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago

Signal.app

Just say Signal holy fuck.

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The reality is actually far scarier...

Meta manipulated you to have those conversations.

[–] dwindling7373@feddit.it 3 points 4 months ago

/s to a degree.

[–] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Keep nefarious apps in your work profile and don't store any files in your work profile. Turn on the work profile only when you use the app, then freeze it again as soon as you're done. Regularly clear the apps' caches. This will limit what the spyware can spy on and how long they can spy on you.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.ml 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Just read most of the comments here and I feel nauseous about this.

My job encourages instagram use.

I think the only way around having our devices spy on our spoken face to face conversations is to have a mobile device with a removable battery. Who remembers the HTC EVO and all the phones like those? Anyone know of a good phone that offers the removable battery?

[–] Cube6392@beehaw.org 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I only know about Fairphone and Teracube. Having owned a Teracube I recommend not getting a Teracube

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Please tell me about your experience with Teracube.

[–] Cube6392@beehaw.org 3 points 4 months ago

Hardware specs were too constrained for regular daily use. The software updates are always way behind schedule, and the company is too small to support their warranty (I really do think they're doing their best to do what's right, but they're just super slow on turnaround for support)

[–] dwindling7373@feddit.it 10 points 4 months ago

It happens to me as well, in my instances it's most likely the social network they tied me to. Some friends of mine are heavy Instagram users and whenever I hang out with them I get almost real time relevant ads on my isolated Instagram.

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Use it only through your web browser or bite the bullet and don't use it at all despite those people that are currently on it. Maybe explain in a meme why you are leaving and where you can be found.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Even better: Look into self hosting a Pixelfed server. It takes some skill but will be way better.

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[–] Zak@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I don't think Instagram can read your Matrix conversations, but may be able to predict your interests with fancy algorithms or buying information from data brokers, even if it's related to things you did on another device.

If you want to be more sure it's not spying on your phone, uninstall the app and use it through your web browser.

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[–] umami_wasbi@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Probably because your friends search about it when they are not having things separated and based on the social graph that IG thinks you're interested in it too?

[–] countrypunk 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

None of my matrix friends are on Instagram and vice versa

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[–] chirospasm@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Is IG on a completely different profile in GrapheneOS, or is the app installed on the primary profile where you use your other apps? GrapheneOS's profiles completely isolate from one another.

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[–] TheSun 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Use the user profiles feature of grapheneos to make a "social" profile and only use that to access Instagram / facebook.

Meta sells your convo data on WhatsApp for ads, if you use it you will get targeted ads regardless.

Other options are signal (Molly on fdroid), simplex, etc.

[–] Deello@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

My car has an aux cable to connect to my phone. The cable died again so I've been rediscovering the radio and I've been been hearing commercials for whatsapp. They advertise E2EE as a feature. What you are saying is a contradiction to that. Is it possible to have E2EE AND have them sell your convo to third parties?

[–] Onihikage@beehaw.org 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

They advertise E2EE as a feature

They can call it E2EE as much as they want, but it's a lie. It's encrypted in transit and at rest, at least on the user's device, but unlike true E2EE, they can decrypt and view any conversation they want to.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-facebook-undermines-privacy-protections-for-its-2-billion-whatsapp-users

[–] Deello@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago

So E2EE but they have a copy of the keys to use at their discretion. Cool, we have digital landlords now.

E2EE* plaintext with extra steps

[–] Atelopus-zeteki@kbin.run 3 points 4 months ago

This is particularly insidious, as they claim to use the same encryption as Signal, developed by Open Whisper Systems. But Meta allows themselves access. 2 billion users. SMH.

[–] countrypunk 1 points 4 months ago

Does this also apply to calls?

[–] noodlejetski@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

they encrypt the content, but not the metadata. so Meta might not know what you're talking about, but will know who do you talk with, how often, where from, for how long, and so on. that'll often be more valuable for advertisers than the contents of the messages themselves.

[–] zingo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

More importantly, Meta also has the encryption keys of any WhatsApp conversation.

It's like a fucking META password manager that unlocks your vault.. (...as in your WhatsApp conversations) and locks it when they are done spying, whenever they feel like. Repeatedly.

You have no control, as in a secure private conversation unless you have the keys on your device.

[–] DaveedMee@beehaw.org 1 points 4 months ago

dont wanna be "that" guy but do u have any sources regarding the whatsapp convo data sale? first time I've heard about it

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[–] rhymepurple@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Its really hard to tell from a technical perspective, especially without having closely monitored all of your digital activity (and those that you have been in close contact with) in the days/weeks leading up receiving the ads. Some things that Meta could have done (in varying degrees of realism) include:

  • read anything you downloaded from your Matrix client, like file attachments
  • read your notifications if they contain any contents of the conversation
  • read your clipboard if you copy/pasted anything into/out of a Matrix client
  • actively participating in the room and associated your Matrix ID to your Meta account(s)
  • scraped the contents of the room if it is public and unencrypted
  • others in the Matrix room saved your Matrix ID in your contact information within their contacts
  • Meta is recording your screen outside of Meta's apps
  • a Meta library is used in another app/service on your device that is sharing information back to Meta
  • read an attachment that you downloaded elsewhere then shared on Matrix
  • Meta read screenshots you or others took of the conversation
  • Meta has a back door in the Matrix server or client software used
  • the administrators of your Matrix home server (or the administrors of any other home server in the room) are sharing non-encrypted information to Meta to offset hosting costs
  • Meta is running a home server of a user in the room
  • you or someone you are associated with clicked on a link shared in the Matrix room that contained a tracker or led to a site that contained a tracker

Its really hard to comprehensively and conclusively avoid all "spying" that Meta/Instagram could do to you. The best thing that you could do is something that many people aren't capable or willing to do - not install any Meta software, don't use any Meta services, block any Meta IP addresses and/or domain names, and advocate that those around you do the same.

Realistically, the best advice that youre going to get has already been said. Use the web browser instead of the app as much as possible, ideally in a different browser and/or user profile. If you must have the app installed, keep it in a separate profile and kill the app and/or profile whenever it is not in use. Review all of your security and privacy settings in all Meta apps. Review any apps/services you allowed Meta to connect to/from (and the security/privacy settings of those apps). Reduce the amount of information that you enter/share on Meta platforms. Review the other users that you are connected with on Meta's platforms.

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[–] Ebby@lemmy.ssba.com 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I feel a lot of these responses miss the mark. If I read it correctly, you suggest matrix is the data leak and the results of which show in Instagram.

Matrix has many clients, one of which could be leaking data, but not necessary from your end of the conversation.

There are also keyboards which analyze input, and high privileged apps that can read notifications.

From what I understand, Meta apps can scan a device for a list of apps installed (probably somesort of fingerprinting concern) but can't actually read app interactions or content.

I'd say hi in a chat with some clear, unique keywords on a new or old/wiped device and see if the leak continues. It may not be you at all, but it would identify the problematic device

[–] GustavoFring@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)
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[–] independantiste@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago

If you want to be extra safe I guess the best way would be to use the web version of Instagram with ublock origin installed. If you can find a way to use Firefox containers on Android as well it could really restrict what they can access.

[–] maniac@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Use a modified app of Instagram.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 months ago (5 children)

At that point you might as well move to something else

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[–] sic_semper_tyrannis@lemmy.today 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Maybe Instagram has access to your keyboard so it can monitor what you're typing in other apps.

[–] countrypunk 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

All I'm using is the default graphene keyboard

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[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

If the only thing you use it for is chat, I think you can chat with instagram users on FB messenger instead, which you can then heavily restrict in terms of the OS permissions you give to it.

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