this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2024
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Privacy

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[–] themurphy@lemmy.ml 222 points 3 months ago (4 children)

More like it shows dangers of using only one provider for almost all IT infrastructure.

[–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 76 points 3 months ago (7 children)
[–] Steve@communick.news 49 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Because if everyone used cash, schedule systems, records systems, communication systems around the world, breakdown still.

If there's a verity of software vendors used in these systems, and financial systems, you don't get simultaneous global breakdowns any more.

Basically. Using cash won't prevent this from happening. Using several interoperable software providers and systems will.

[–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 25 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (9 children)

Using cash won't prevent this from happening.

I mean yeah, that’s why I said both, not just cash. I carry some cash on me because you never know. I’d also like to see less monopolization of just about everything because it makes for single points of failure. Diversifying your payment methods by including the potential for cash also helps.

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[–] lemmyreader@lemmy.ml 61 points 3 months ago (3 children)

There's more to it. The mono-culture is one thing, but rolling out the update to millions of computers on the same days sounds like a bad idea.

Fun fact in 2008, with nuclear submarines, the mono-culture was not that bad yet.

It's interesting to note the UK went with a Windows XP variant and not Windows Vista, which is marketed as the more reliable OS. The USA never made the same calculations: The American Navy runs on Linux.

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 3 months ago

Navy: "we use Arch btw"

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 8 points 3 months ago

Not necessarily one provider but one point of failure. In this case it was the update system that allowed one company to push something to production on other companies systems.

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[–] Zacryon@feddit.org 67 points 3 months ago (1 children)

*global IT outage shows dangers of monopolies.

[–] sunzu@kbin.run 16 points 3 months ago

Why do you hate the "free market"

[–] The_Terrible_Humbaba 55 points 3 months ago (18 children)

One problem no one has mentioned, is that it also makes life a lot harder for homeless people. I guess they need to open a bank account and start writing their account number on a cardboard.

This actually reminds me of when I went to a restaurant a while ago. I had some physical money to spend, so I figured I'd take it with me and pay with that. At the end of the meal, while my friends paid with a card, I asked if I could pay with cash. Immediately, the waiter's demeanor changed and he looked almost... disgusted? I don't even know. Then he asked me in a tone that matched his expression if I didn't have a card, and I answered something like "Well, I do, but it would be more convenient for me to pay with cash, if that's okay". Then he, for some reason, repeated the question, and I answered similarly. He didn't say anything and just avoided looking at me. While a friend next to me was paying I asked again, "so, can I pay with cash?", and without looking at me, he just barely shook his head yes. So I paid with cash, and then I awaited my 3€ change back (in my country it's not usually custom to tip because waiters actually get paid full salaries). Eventually he came back with our receipt, but no change. I just left without saying anything - at this point I wasn't going to argue about 3€ - but I'm most definitely not coming back to that place.

Still don't know what the dude's problem was, but it did leave me wondering how are homeless people expected to pay for anything, if even a person who isn't homeless can receive such cold treatment just for choosing to pay with cash.

[–] Glytch@lemmy.world 20 points 3 months ago

One problem no one has mentioned, is that it also makes life a lot harder for homeless people. I guess they need to open a bank account and start writing their account number on a cardboard.

And you need a permanent address for a bank account. Unfortunately, that's a feature of the cashless movement not a bug. Anything to make the lives of people experiencing homelessness harder.

[–] Wilzax@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago (3 children)

In Europe it's so much more common to use cash than card anyway, that guy was a fucking weirdo

[–] Miaou@jlai.lu 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Europe is not a single country

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[–] Tangentism@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago

One problem no one has mentioned, is that it also makes life a lot harder for homeless people.

But to those who organise those systems, they're not consumers with disposable income or a credit line to spend. They are happy for them to fall through the cracks and people not using cash penalises them further by eradicating charity and widening divisions.

It is functioning as designed.

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[–] istanbullu@lemmy.ml 44 points 3 months ago (2 children)

cashless society is a really stupid idea. it's not worth sacrificing privacy and stability for a tiny bit of convenience.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 19 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I don't understand why we can't have multiple forms of payment. I'll keep cash and cards so I have options

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[–] fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Does anyone actually want a cashless society though?

I don't carry cash for the same reason I don't carry my socket wrench. I use it for specific things at specific times but I don't need it day to day. That doesn't mean I think socket wrenches should be outlawed.

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[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 39 points 3 months ago (11 children)

No, that is not correct. Global outage shows the dangers of centralized systems would be a better headline. Monero Worked all day throughout the entire outage with no problems.

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 28 points 3 months ago (14 children)

Define "worked" in this context. You mean their own infrastructure didn't crash? You certainly didn't pop down to the store and buying anything useful with Monero 😂

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[–] Username@feddit.de 11 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Even central currencies can work if you can make offline and peer to peer payments.

Not easy to pull off cryptographically, though.

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[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 37 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Maybe if somebody needs something we could just give it to them.

[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 30 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Socialist scum.

What are you going to say next, that housing is a human right? That food and water should be free? That the economic surplus should first go to the people in need?

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[–] Swallowtail@beehaw.org 8 points 3 months ago

Socialism!!! 🤮🤮🤮🤯🤯🤯🤢🤢😷🤒

Think of the shareholders!!!

[–] nicerdicer@feddit.org 33 points 3 months ago

I think it is important to have cash as a backup.

A couple of years ago there were some issues with card reading terminals in Germany. Due to a faulty security certificate these card reading terminals were not operational for about a whole month. Many stores were affected, because they almost all use ones from the same manufacturer. The only reason why it wasn't such a big deal was that people were carrying cash around anyway and were able to switch the method of payment easily. Having cash worked as a backup.

[–] prism@lemmy.one 33 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Agreed. I would love to see a law requiring businesses to accept cash where possible. That sort of law already exists at state and local levels in the US, would like to see it adopted in the UK.

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[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 31 points 3 months ago (3 children)

One of the biggest rules in IT is always have a backup.

A cashless society has no backup.

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[–] Norgur@fedia.io 28 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What good is cash gonna do if the networked cash register doesn't open anymore?

[–] dukethorion@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago (5 children)

They have paper and pens that they can track their transactions until the system is fixed.

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[–] 800XL@lemmy.world 23 points 3 months ago (5 children)

A cashless society is so stupid beyond words. In order to create one you must also create a full surveillance society to protect it, and even that would be ineffective to stop it from being hacked.

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Just to be clear we are a mostly cashless society and the majority of currency is not physically in existence around the world and somehow it manages to be protected by and large.

[–] 800XL@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

The difference is that if someone decides to freeze your cashless bank account they can by a mouse click and you're destitute. Whereas if that happens in a cash-based society they have to come and get it from you.

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[–] aviation_hydrated@infosec.pub 20 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Totally. My petrol station allowed me to pay in seashells while everyone else were just standing around complaining, was kinda nice

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 14 points 3 months ago (3 children)

It would be fine if not everyone had the same exact setup. Also you can have cashless payments why still supporting cash. They aren't mutually exclusive

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[–] shikitohno@lemm.ee 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Even cash breaks down pretty quickly in a hypothetical situation where you have something similar occur that lasts for an extended period. When banks' systems are impacted, how do I get more cash from my account with them when whatever amount I had when the system went down runs out? I haven't had a physical passbook for an account in a good 20 years.

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[–] electricprism@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 months ago (3 children)

One EMP and ** Poof ** It's all gone

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[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 11 points 3 months ago (16 children)

Can't remember which one but credit cards were offline for a time with something and places that still had the carbon paper roller things stashed away took them out and used them. They should keep those things around.

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[–] ampersandcastles@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Me, wanting to abolish currency entirely...

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

Achieving a moneyless society after one big overlong network outage.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I'm biased. I hate digital money for stalkerware.

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[–] makeasnek@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (8 children)

Bitcoin wasn't down. Hasn't had a single hour of downtime or hack since it started 15 years ago in 2008. No bank holidays. Clear and transparent supply, 100% open source code. Not run by any single government, corporate board, or CEO. Sends money across the globe in under a second for pennies in fees, all you need is a phone. Powerful stuff.

[–] Flatfire@lemmy.ca 54 points 3 months ago (5 children)

I see this comment every now and then, and it always forgets the cost of the transaction, confirmation time, and of course, the need for miners to exist to process these confirmations/transactions. The energy cost is extraordinary, and the end user is taxed for the use of their own dollars.

It's not really feasible on a broad scale. Bitcoin is a holding stock, not a valid currency. Its value only increases because it manufactures its own scarcity. And as its scarcity increases, it naturally moves toward centralization since mining becomes too large an activity for the individual to reap any benefit. You can argue for proof of stake to eliminate the need for mining, but then you open the doors to centralization more immediately.

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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 19 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

As long as you ignore its problems it's great. I'm sure you do.

Meanwhile the rest of us who don't live in cloud Cuckoo land have to deal with your shitty system that takes 45 minutes to process a transaction and requires the burning down of several rainforests per transaction. So we can see it is probably not a good idea.

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