this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2024

99 points (94.6% liked)

World News

39032 readers

2433 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world

Recommendations

How to spot Misinformation and Propaganda

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

quinten@lemmy.world

NewsAutoMod@lemmy.world

jordanlund@lemmy.world

Tenthrow@lemmy.world

little_cow@lemmy.world

lemmyAtom@lemmy.world

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world

35 Years After Tiananmen, China’s Conduct Again Triggers Alarm (www.wsj.com)

submitted 5 months ago by DolphinMath to c/world@lemmy.world

15 comments fedilink hide all child comments

In 1989, blowback was swift; alienation today is ‘systematic, progressive, long-term.’

China’s 1989 crackdown on pro-democracy activists sparked a seminal crisis in Beijing’s relationship with the West. On the massacre’s 35th anniversary, China’s leaders face familiar international blowback over their conduct.

Instead of gunfire, today’s sources of discomfort about China are a mix of its aggressive industrial policy and militarization toward neighbors, plus a national-security agenda from Chinese leader Xi Jinping that has curtailed personal freedoms at home and shaped affairs abroad.

top 15 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] DolphinMath -3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Wall Street Journal – Bias and Credibility

Bias Rating: Right-Center

Factual Reporting: Mostly Factual 

Country: USA 

Press Freedom Rating: Mostly Free 

Media Type: Newspaper 

Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic 

MBFC Credibility Rating: High Credibility

MediaBiasFactCheck.com: About + Methodology

Ad Fontes Media Rating: Middle / Reliable

Article By: James T. Areddy

Archive Link: 3 Jun 2024 04:21:58 UTC

[+] Tryptaminev@lemm.ee -30 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Obligatory reminder that the Tiananmen protests were against capitalist reforms that were crucial in shaping todays China and were very much welcomed by the Western countries.

It is adding insult to the injury, that the western narrative keeps eluding this aspect to make it seem like the protestors died for the opposite of what they actually protested for.

[–] DolphinMath 36 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Why not let the students words speak for themselves? Wikipedia

Students list seven demands of the government.

1. Affirm Hu Yaobang’s views on democracy and freedom as correct.

2. Admit that the campaigns against spiritual pollution and bourgeois liberalization had been wrong.

3. Publish information on the income of state leaders and their family members.

4. Allow privately run newspapers and stop press censorship.

5. Increase funding for education and raise intellectuals’ pay.

6. End restrictions on demonstrations in Beijing.

7. Provide objective coverage of students in official media.

[+] Tryptaminev@lemm.ee -24 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You are just doing what i criticised. You are cherry-picking instead of acknowledging the protests as a whole.

Freedom of expression was one of many goals. And the protests were caused by the capitalist reforms, which gave rise to people demanding freedom of expression to be able to express their anger over the consequences of those capitalist reforms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre

The protests were precipitated by the death of pro-reform Chinese Communist Party (CCP) general secretary Hu Yaobang in April 1989 amid the backdrop of rapid economic development and social change in post-Mao China, reflecting anxieties among the people and political elite about the country’s future. The reforms of the 1980s had led to a nascent market economy that benefited some people but seriously disadvantaged others, and the one-party political system also faced a challenge to its legitimacy. Common grievances at the time included inflation, corruption, limited preparedness of graduates for the new economy, and restrictions on political participation. Although they were highly disorganized and their goals varied, the students called for things like rollback of the removal of “iron rice bowl” jobs, greater accountability, constitutional due process, democracy, freedom of the press, and freedom of speech. Workers’ protests were generally focused on inflation and the erosion of welfare. These groups united around anti-corruption demands, adjusting economic policies, and protecting social security. At the height of the protests, about one million people assembled in the square.

China was already state capitalist by then and people protested that.

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 20 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I guess you missed the main section at the top:

Goals

End of corruption within the Chinese Communist Party, as well as democratic reforms, freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom of association, social equality, democratic input on economic reforms

[–] DMBFFF@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I figured they died because they protested in a Communist dictatorship.

[+] Tryptaminev@lemm.ee -14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre

The protests were precipitated by the death of pro-reform Chinese Communist Party (CCP) general secretary Hu Yaobang in April 1989 amid the backdrop of rapid economic development and social change in post-Mao China, reflecting anxieties among the people and political elite about the country's future. The reforms of the 1980s had led to a nascent market economy that benefited some people but seriously disadvantaged others, and the one-party political system also faced a challenge to its legitimacy. Common grievances at the time included inflation, corruption, limited preparedness of graduates for the new economy, and restrictions on political participation. Although they were highly disorganized and their goals varied, the students called for things like rollback of the removal of "iron rice bowl" jobs, greater accountability, constitutional due process, democracy, freedom of the press, and freedom of speech. Workers' protests were generally focused on inflation and the erosion of welfare. These groups united around anti-corruption demands, adjusting economic policies, and protecting social security. At the height of the protests, about one million people assembled in the square.

China was already state capitalist by then and people protested that.

[–] DMBFFF@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I just pulled this out from WP:

wp:Red August

(my bold)

Red August (simplified Chinese: 红八月; traditional Chinese: 紅八月; pinyin: Hóng Bāyuè) is a term used to indicate a period of political violence and massacres in Beijing beginning in August 1966, during the Cultural Revolution.[1][2][3] According to official statistics published in 1980 after the end of the Cultural Revolution, Red Guards in Beijing killed a total of 1,772 people during Red August, while 33,695 homes were ransacked and 85,196 families were forcibly displaced.[1][4][5] However, according to official statistics published in November 1985, the number of deaths in Beijing during Red August was 10,275.[5][6][7]

This was back in Mao's time.

It seems that Communism killed those Chinese people.

[+] Tryptaminev@lemm.ee -10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What kind of abstruse logic is this? Next thing you are going to say the people murdered in Gaza today are the victims of Christian crusaders.

The victims under Mao were victims of communism. But it wasn't Mao that committed the Tiananmen massacre. It was a state capitalist regime that was supported by the West.

Why are you trying to spread disinformation about historical events?

[–] DMBFFF@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Presumably,

Mao self-identified as a Communist (or something like it) and is today defended by such.

Deng self-identified as a Communist (or something like it) and is today defended by such (at least by many Chinese).

Palestinians, Gazans, and Jews were victims of the Crusaders.

[–] bobburger@fedia.io 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They died because they protested in a state capitalist dictatorship?

[–] Tryptaminev@lemm.ee -5 points 5 months ago

Yes. But people dont want to acknowledge that because then they would need to acknowledge, that mass murder and massacres are nothing specific to any form of economy, but specific to authoritarianism and then they might have to face their own support of current authoritariansm.

[–] bluGill@kbin.run -1 points 5 months ago

about 3/4ths of that I can support which is pretty good.