this post was submitted on 31 May 2024
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Remember when the war was supposed to end when all the hostages were released?

I wonder what all the people who told me that the objective of this war was to free the hostages are going to tell me now?

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[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 38 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Not sure who you were listening to, but I seem to remember from the beginning that one of Israel's stated goals was to remove Hamas from power. The hostages getting released was a condition for any pauses or ceasefires.

[–] ramble81@lemm.ee 42 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Their true goal is to erase Palestine period. Hamas could be removed tomorrow, hostages freed and that wouldn’t stop them. They would say the new regime is “backed by Hamas” or “contains remnants of Hamas” or is “influenced by Hamas” and they’ll continue. Until the international community condemns them completely for this, they will continue to their true goal.

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Condemns? No they give a shit what international-community-1international-community-2 says in public, as long as they're receiving the weapons and money they need to carry on.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago

Israel’s Defense Chief Says Only Way to Free Hostages Held by Hamas Is to Keep Up Military Pressure in Gaza

Many israelis only recently discovered that Hamas offered a hostage exchange since the very beginning.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 21 points 5 months ago

This war never was about getting hostages released.

The hostages gave the Israeli government a very nice and convenient excuse to do what they always wanted to do but never could.

It's the same as bush with 9/11 invading Iraq even though Osama bin Laden was known not to be there. He literally said he didn't care about bin Laden, let's go get Iraq's oil!

The Israeli government wants the Palestinian lands and the Palestinians, apparently, all dead or gone. This reminds me of some other very large and sad event in history, the name eludes me for a second....

[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 5 months ago

It was never about the hostages

[–] mindlight@lemm.ee 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

For anyone interested, Wikipedia has a page on the current hostage situation and some history.

According to Wikipedia, one of the "deals" Hamas has offered Israel was that Isreal release all Palestinian prisoners. That would be thousands of prisoners in exchange for hostages Hamas took on the 7th of October.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 13 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Why are you using prisoners for one and hostages for the other?

[–] mindlight@lemm.ee 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

From the Wikipedia page I linked to:

Hamas has offered to release all hostages in exchange for Israel releasing all Palestinian prisoners.

[–] graymess@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That's the Wikipedia bias. The vast majority of pages are written and maintained by a small number of people with a Western Centrist perspective, which tends to be more conservative. You start to notice it more once you see it for the first time.

[–] mindlight@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Is Khalil al-Hayya, senior Hamas official also tainted by western bias?

From Al Jazeera (also western bias?):

Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the group’s political bureau, said that Hamas “is serious about releasing Israeli captives within the framework of an agreement” that also ensures the release of thousands of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

So to summarize: The Palestinian prisoners are referred to as prisoners by Hamas. The non combatants taken hostage by Hamas are not referred to as prisoners by Hamas.

Whether you think the terrorist organisation Hamas are tainted by western bias or not is a different discussion that I'm not interested in taking part in.

Have a nice evening. I will.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)
[–] mindlight@lemm.ee 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Is it ok to quote Khalil al-Hayya, senior Hamas official ?

From Al Jazeera:

Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the group’s political bureau, said that Hamas “is serious about releasing Israeli captives within the framework of an agreement” that also ensures the release of thousands of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

So to summarize: The Palestinian prisoners are referred to as prisoners by Hamas. The non combatants taken hostage by Hamas are not referred to as prisoners by Hamas.

Whether you think the terrorist organisation Hamas are paid off by Isreal or not is a different discussion that I'm not interested in taking part in.

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The different is semantics

[–] RandomGuy79@lemmy.world -5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

One group are prisoners and one group are hostages

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

The difference is due to the military control Israel has over the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Palestinians are tried in a military court with no civil rights or representation, tortured into false confessions, and incarcerated with routine torture, sexual abuse, and denial of basic medical care. That includes hundreds if not thousands of children.

Palestinians denied civil rights (HRW) including Military Court (B'TSelem)

Palestinian Prisoners in Israel including Child abuse - Save The Children

Torture and Abuse in Interrogations - B'TSelem

Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy - NPR

Urgently investigate inhumane treatment and enforced disappearance of Palestinians detainees from Gaza - Amnesty

Israel/OPT: Horrifying cases of torture and degrading treatment of Palestinian detainees amid spike in arbitrary arrests

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago

Which one 3 week old sockpuppet account?

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

But khamaaas just needs to hand over the hostages and the war will end! The ZioBots have been screaming this for the last 8 months it must be true! Surely they wouldn't gaslight people into saying this was never said!

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 points 5 months ago

And I'm sure the Israelis will be quite fond of this stance that flips the bird at literally the single part of this whole debacle that they themselves are interested in

[–] solo 4 points 5 months ago