this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2023
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We live in an age when the most unobjectionable and necessary ideas for progress can give rise to paranoia and fear. If the most innocuous, unoriginal possible idea can fuel paranoia, how can we hope to have a sensible discussion about the future of our places?

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[–] BlueNine@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Doesn’t seem like the author really offers any possible reasons for the rights reaction to responsible urban planning, so perhaps I will offer some.

Conservatism isn’t solely a political philosophy that a person decides to adopt. There are personally traits that feed into a person’s susceptibility to right wing thought. People who have low openness tend to be conservative. To paraphrase Buckley, their brains wired up to tell them to stand athwart history and yell STOP.

These people all grew up in a car centric world, where dad commuted in to the city from the suburbs and mom drove them to the school everyday. That, to them is the comfortable, natural order of things. Their psychology begs them to preserve that order at all costs.

Even though that model of planning is really new, only going back about 70 or 80 yrs, to them it is the natural way. Any alternative looks like change and progress, which they are psychologically predisposed to be suspicious of. All change to them, can be reduced to something that is being taken away from them. Something that disrespects their forefathers.

Not all change is good and some conservative thought is useful when a society is planning its future. But, it’s really dangerous when we have made mistakes.

In our modern political landscape, there are charlatans like Peterson and Jones who know how to pick at their audience’s psychology and pull dollars out of it. They cynically use the fears of their audience and package up any “new” ideas as existential threats.

The key when discussing progress with conservatives is to opening them up to the idea that we are going back. In this case specifically, 15min cities sounds scary but “returning to the urban planning ideas that motivated our great grandparents” might sound great. Same change different reaction.

Conservative cruelty cannot be accepted or forgiven but the psychology that drives it must be understood and accounted for when developing communication strategies.

[–] reverendsteveii@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

as I've grown older, one of the things I've realized is that the primary driving force behind a lot of people's beliefs is, as pratchett put it, 'the overwhelming desire that tomorrow should be pretty much like yesterday was'. It takes a lot, like a lot Lot LOT, to get people to be willing to risk the unknown. people have this weird ability to look back at all of history, see how much things have grown and changed, and think to themselves "thank god that I live here and now, where things operate in the only possible correct way that was ordained by god. the past is nothing but barbarians dying of infections and the future is a dystopia that no one could possibly want or understand, but the way I grew up with is comfortable and makes sense. it's the natural order." this isn't a terribly unique thought, but the ability to think it without realizing that every generation that came before you also believed that very same thing with as much conviction as you did is....let's say it's uniquely human.

[–] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When I was a kid, the future was supposed to be awesome and full of amazing technologies and solutions to all our present-day problems. Now I feel like these right-wingers have taken that all away, and now the future is, yeah, dystopian. I'm glad I don't have any children…

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

But the present is full of amazing technologies: we have smartphones, and we have Facebook, and Wikipedia, and mass state surveillance, and toy quadcopters dropping bomblets... ok, so maybe all of that creates problems at the same pace as it solves others... but the tech is amazing!

[–] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

These people all grew up in a car centric world, where dad commuted in to the city from the suburbs and mom drove them to the school everyday. That, to them is the comfortable, natural order of things. Their psychology begs them to preserve that order at all costs.

How are 15-minute cities a threat to them and their way of life? As far as I know, there's nothing about a 15-minute city that precludes anyone from driving a car in it.

All change to them, can be reduced to something that is being taken away from them. Something that disrespects their forefathers.

What about the changes they themselves are causing? Women in their forefathers' time had access to legal abortion, and now they have taken that away. That's a change. A rather drastic and menacing change.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How are 15-minute cities a threat to them and their way of life?

More compact cities tend to have more people on the streets (stranger danger!), less space for the cars in which they feel safe, and often force them to park and leave (!) their car minutes (!!) away from their destination. Let's not even speak of public transportation, where dozens (!!!) of strangers get crammed into the same box.

Women in their forefathers' time had access to legal abortion

Ah, but what about their fore-forefathers' time? Anyway, that's not menacing... for those who can't get pregnant (men, and celibate, post-menopausal, etc. women).

[–] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

More compact cities tend to have more people on the streets (stranger danger!)

I thought that's why they carry guns?

less space for the cars

Okay, that's a problem if you need to drive somewhere.

often force them to park and leave (!) their car minutes (!!) away from their destination.

That's a serious problem if you've got a bum knee or something. Not everyone who's disabled can afford to get a diagnosis and placard, nor will they get one in a timely fashion even if they can afford it.

Let’s not even speak of public transportation, where dozens (!!!) of strangers get crammed into the same box.

That's also a serious problem if there's a deadly airborne disease going around. We just had one of those, and another one could happen at any time.

That didn't stop people from flying during the pandemic, though…

Ah, but what about their fore-forefathers’ time? Anyway, that’s not menacing… for those who can’t get pregnant (men, and celibate, post-menopausal, etc. women).

That, however, I will not sympathize with. They are horrible people if they believe that.

[–] whelmer@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They believe that the long-term intent is to force people to remain within their designated "15 minute" zones.

[–] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] whelmer@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

To be evil, I guess.

[–] ArcticCircleSystem@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

What do we do in situations where we aren't going back? ~Strawberry

[–] ellabella@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The key when discussing progress with conservatives is to opening them up to the idea that we are going back

Yesss, a kind of Positive Scripting, especially when tailored to a certain group of people,

[–] ArcticCircleSystem@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

But what do you do when you're not trying to go back to anything? ~Strawberry