c/neurodivergence isn't being moderated at all lately. Three months ago there was the great post from NoOnesLazyInLazyTown@beehaw.org concerning ableism against people with NPD, and the amount of toxicity I saw in that thread was shocking. Some great people pushing back on the ableism and hate there, but I couldn't believe those hateful comments were being left up, or the sheer volume of them.
Yesterday I posted a new article I wrote also concerning NPD, hoping I would get the same kind of positive response I've gotten from Beehaw in the past when talking about neurodiversity. But instead I saw nothing but hate, personal attacks, and vicious toxicity. This isn't the kind of discourse I come to Beehaw to see, and I don't think I'm alone.
Looking at the community history, it looks like the post volume has dramatically reduced since immediately before that first NPD post. I'm not surprised people are avoiding the community, I don't intend to use it anymore either if what I received yesterday is going to be the norm.
The modlog of this community hasn't been touched in 7 months, and the only comment removal visible at all is tagged with the removal reason "stupid comment", which I frankly find quite ironic.
Can we please have some actual moderation on this community? If there is absolutely nobody else who can volunteer their time then I'd even be happy to do it Myself.
I went and looked at your cited post, and am confused what you are upset about. People disagreeing with you? People thinking an argument for Donald trump in the name of inclusivity is absurd?
I also noticed that you claim yourself to be a narcissist, and find it somewhat ironic that you choose to try and take down/over a community over a lukewarm response to your narcissism argument, being quite narcissist yourself in doing so.
That being said any unmoderated community should be assigned to (a) new caretaker(s).
"Symptoms include an excessive need for admiration, disregard for others' feelings, an inability to handle any criticism, and a sense of entitlement."
In talking to folks with various axis 'disorders' it's important to remember you are talking to a person, not a series of diagnostic criteria or symptoms, get to know them and understand why they think the way they do, working with them instead of against them and worsening their trauma.
Us ND folks aren't all the same and symptoms of a very understandable reaction to trauma are not our entire personality, thanks!
I've upvoted your post because I perceive you as respectfully voicing your opinion and mentioning supporting observations. I don't get these vibes from @Grail@aussie.zone's rants at all.
Inclusion and tolerance are important, but I feel like @Grail@aussie.zone is abusing these concepts. And that may or may not be a part of their diagnosis (who could even tell for sure), but the point is, people can't expect everybody around them to accommodate each and every aspect of their state of mind all the time. Just as @Grail@aussie.zone has a right to voice an opinion (withing the boundaries set by the community's rules), so does everybody else. And that means people have a right to disagree with each other and/or call out obvious BS.
TL;DR: This is generally an extraordinarily tolerant community, but most people here are not therapists or psychiatrists looking to do pro-bono work.
Thank you.
Oh, I guess I am used to folks with various axis 'disorders' so I can see where @Grail@aussie.zone is coming from as I can see past the diagnosis or symptoms and it's true, being autistic one of my special interests is behaviour so I am more well versed in these things and I can tend to forget that others might not be or might see things differently to me as someone who sees what folks are responding to actually/with a different context.
Okay, I do agree that people shouldn't expect others to acomodate them, however, I think it would be a much nicer world if we did at least try and listen to folk's actual arguments rather than seeing them as a bunch of diagnostic criteria or symptoms and thus instantly dismiss their opinion.
I also do know it's difficult when trying to have discussions online (true offline too) to maintain a sense of civility or to be told that how we have been thinking/referring to folks for years is wrong, especially when someone else seems so adamant that it is because they can come off looking unreasonable, however, I think taking a step back and at least trying to see things from a different perspective can be helpful in making the world a brighter and more caring place.
Yeah, that is fair that folks have the right to argue in favour or against something, however I do agree with @Grail@aussie.zone that not many really engaged with the post seriously and They had to tank a lot of abuse or generally upsetting replies, though not all of it was abuse I agree there. I get that many folks thought it was BS. However, I suspect that is from years of media and conditioning/the general 'zeitgeist' being told that folks with NP'D' or 'narcissists' are evil and bad or yes, fairly those who have trauma from growing up with parents who had NP'D' or other axis 'disorders'.
I have seen great shifts in understanding in recently years though away from the idea that everyone with NP'D' is like this or will always be like this and I am glad. However, I think people with the diagnosis or symptoms should be listened to, even if it is difficult to as they may be understandably upset or angry about such misunderstandings or treatment at those who do not understand it etc.
Thank you for engaging with me on this.
I took my time writing a lengthy response to this, but considering the current state of affairs I'm not sure it's a good idea to continue this discussion at the moment, even if in a strictly theoretical and stressedly respectful way. Maybe we can cross paths some other day in some other forum, I think I'd quite enjoy exchanging ideas with you. In the meantime take care.
I am genuinely not sure what you mean by the current state of affairs.
However, fair enough and I hope that you take care 🙂
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound mysterious, I just didn't think it was necessary to elaborate.
The thing is that there are three overlapping discussions on pronouns and the choice of certain words now, and as much as I appreciate the mutual exchange of ideas, I feel like a lot of what I'd have to say could be interpreted by some people as (re)starting arguments that lead nowhere... in other words, the return on investment in this thread is rather low.
Not to mention that I've started finding the whole topic tiresome. I'm all for people being who they want to be without judgement (and I have decades of past actions to prove that), but I also have the right not to care about other people's perception of themselves or have that perception imposed upon me. And I'm invoking that right now for the sake of my own wellbeing. A few days without social media sound just about right.
You take care too, and see you in another thread sometime!
Thank you for explaining!
Thanks, see you around 🙂
I'm ND myself, thanks! The person I was responding to seemed confused as to why the poster is so upset with folks having mild disagreement with their statements, and I provided context.
Oh, did it looked like I was claiming you were not ND? I did try to specify Us ND folks, perhaps it came off incorrectly.
Okay, well it did I think come off as seeing them as a set of symptoms rather than a person, but I do understand your attempt at providing helpful context, though personally I do not think those are the reasons the person was upset.
The poster had to endure a lot of abuse in that post and so I think it is understandable, NP'D' or not that anyone might be upset and drained after that.
I didn't look at the post myself, I was just going off of the statement I responded to stating it was "mild disagreement." That's on me. As for the symptoms, I can explain in my own words next time, that may read better.
Fair enough.
Thank you for wanting to do that, I at least appreciate it.
While I would like to have a discussion with you, I'm going to have to ask you to use My preferred pronouns. I use capitalised pronouns, as it says in My bio. That means you call Me "You" instead of "you". And please don't call Me a n*rcissist, that word is a slur and should only be used by people from within the community, not by neurotypicals.
Respectfully, I dont read anyone's bio. If you ask me to use your preferred pronouns in interactions with you that's fine with me, capitalization isnt a pronoun though. (How would that even apply in verbal communication?)
Narcissist isnt a slur, it is simply the proper word for a person with certain pronounced character traits which amount to a narcissistic personality... In fact your whole reply reads like a bad faith or troll response on second read.
Lastly I am neurodivergent myself, having ADHD. Not sure why that matters anyway
If someone from an affected community is telling you that something is a slur, perhaps it might be better to listen to them as they are likely to know more about it than anyone else.
Those with NP had a very understandable reaction to trauma and it is a shame how they are treated by the rest of us neurodivergent folks not least because it isn't actually useful in helping them out and just worsens the reaction to trauma.
There are ways we can all work together though and one of those is talking to and listening to folks with NP or any of the "axis of different 'disorders'" when they tell you something is a problem.
I have friends with various 'axis disorders' and they know exactly what they need and how they can be helped, after all of this kind of trauma reaction comes from abuse, a lack of understanding and lack of love. Do you think more of that will be useful?
Or perhaps decide that interaction with such a person isn't viable.
There is no requirement to adopt others particular eccentricities or needs, choosing to not engage can also be a valid choice.
There are of course potential downsides to this, but if each person is unwilling to adhere to a common contract of communication then the cessation of communication is a reasonable response.
Yes, that can be better in some cases than arguing and making things worse overall.
Choosing not to engage can also be a positive rather than just the prevention of negatives.
Would you like to explain how?
I read your reply as stating that the only outcomes could be "argue and make things worse" or "don't do that", a negative and a neutral respectively.
I perhaps read only the words and not the intent, I think we are may be saying the same thing.
In case we are not :
Not engaging actively frees someone up to do literally anything else, which could overall be more positive than just the prevention of the negative.
In addition some people might consider the avoidance of the argument itself to be a positive rather than just maintaining a neutral position.
Thank you very much for explaining!
It is literally the official technical term for a person with narcistic personality traits, we call those people narcissists. Granted that has a distinct negative connotation, but that is simply due to what kind of person narcissists overwhelmingly are. In fact I would be hard pressed to find alternative terms that are accurate and not equally or more "offensive".
Many 'official' terms have been used and dropped over the years for the offense and opression they cause to those they impacted, it's not unusual to it be pointed out that a term is offensive and that we should stop using it.
The thread, article and The OP made it very clear that NPD or a person with NPD are better terms if you are genuinely looking for better terms which aren't offensive/opressive.
Those terms are just abbreviations to hide the ugly word though. How would you describe a person with a narcistic personality profile without using the term narcistic, or alternatives with even more overtly negative connotations such as selfish, egotistical, demanding, antisocial, obnoxious, dismissive, and so forth?
I understand the value of inclusive language, but it should not obstruct communication.
I guess I would use some of those words but probably more in describing actions rather than the person themselves, most of the time anyway. As it's easy to portray someone as 'evil' based on a single word in common use that likely oppresses and doesn't see the person underneath the label/actions, which is what 'narcissist' often does for/to most people I believe.
Sure, however, I don't think it obstructs it as much as encourages folks to think more about what they're saying rather than relying on a shortcut in language which in my opinion and it would seem the opinion of those with NP'D' is harmful and encourages harmful thinking.
*You