this post was submitted on 28 May 2024
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What some folks hear: "I'M NOT VOTING FOR EITHER BECAUSE BIDEN AND TRUMP ARE BOTH THE DEVIL"
What is being said: "Why the choices geriatric dickhead who wants to let Israel commit genocide and OTHER geriatric dickhead who wants to let Israel commit genocide? I'll still vote for my geriatric dickhead but I'm really not happy about it."
Folks can't force me to be happy about being required to vote for the lesser evil because the two party system is horseshit, and they should really stop trying. If they want me to be an enthusiastic voter maybe they should put forth candidates who don't fill any part of "geriatric dickhead who wants to let Israel commit genocide". There has to be one or two right?
If Gaza is the only political issue you can be bothered to care about then yeah. Sucks to be you. Maybe 2028?
You can always vote party for socialism and liberation instead. Their platform includes Palestinian statehood and an end to weapons shipments to israel.
When the votes get tallied, each one that’s cast for a party with anti-genocide platforms serves as incontrovertible proof to the two major parties that there is real electoral support they could gain by dropping genocide from their own platforms.
And in doing so you throw away your vote, potentially allowing Trump to win just like in 2016, and then we will quickly find that
Under no circumstances can we allow these things.
You’re never gonna convince me personally to vote for Biden. That ship sailed years ago.
For anyone reading though, can you explain how it’s more important to elect the people who have failed over and over again to accomplish the four tasks you laid out than it is to record a vote that establishes what policy platforms one of the two major parties could adopt if they actually wanted one’s vote?
I know, single issue voters are too closed minded. You're not the one worth trying to convince.
Federal elections can generally only maintain the status quo due to the current election system we have. Actual change requires progressive candidates at the local level.
Since you brought it up, I’m not a single issue voter. Biden has had his hands in or been treated as the architect of nearly all the problems America faces. Voting for Biden in my view is like asking the person who caused all the problems and is materially invested in their continued presence to fix them.
I reject progressivism because its ambiguity allows for any kind of political idea to brand itself progressive (the Nazi party called itself progressive!), but if you value a change to the status quo wouldn’t it make sense to cast a ballot with as many votes for candidates endorsed by or representing parties whose policy platforms actually represent the change you’d like to see rather than the (your words here) status quo democrats?
Wouldn’t that include voting for someone other than Biden in addition to all the other positions up for election in which you reject the status quo?
There is no one person responsible for all of this.
You're the one lumping nazis in with progressives. Any damage done to the name progressive is on your hands.
In fantasy land sure, but this is a FPTP system.
I gotta ask that if you prefer to use inline quotes as a format for your replies that you at the very least quote full sentences. I try to write in a clear and unambiguous way, but when my words are chopped up it’s easy to misconstrue the things I’m saying.
No one person can be blamed for the sorry state of the nation, but if you’re interested in an example of legislation which has done significant harm to Americans and funneled billions into the carceral state that Biden himself takes credit for and that third parties have reenforced, the ‘94 crime bill is one.
As I said before, I reject progressivism because of its ambiguity. What is considered progress now (progress for whom, measured how) may very well be abhorrent in the future. The history of progressivism as a political tendency bears this out. It’s used more often as a label than a cohesive platform and rare indeed are the progressive edifices which clearly explain what they’re progressing towards and how they’re judging their steps along that road.
For this reason what I said was not meant as a soul rending insult to people who call themselves progressive, but to offer an explanation why in my next sentence I didn’t specifically reference progressive candidates and used instead policy platforms to describe the candidates.
Now didn’t you just say that federal elections can only maintain the status quo and that change has to happen at a local election level? It seems like I just described the logical steps a person with your views would take when it comes to elections. Why are those ideas perfectly normal when you write them down but suddenly fantastical when I say them?
I am aware of Biden's history.
Yeah, that's how progress works. I don't care for these semantics. You well know what I meant about local politics.
I'll respect your request to quote in full if we forget the semantics.
I said federal elections generally only can maintain the status quo. Not always. In some respects Biden (for as milquetoast centrist/boomer as he is) has made progress towards dealing with climate change for example.
The difference is, in local elections there is often less competition, and less fuckery in the primaries. Key word being less, not none.
The last president to run unopposed was 1820. Wheras for local elections, every year there is some seat that is being run unopposed.
The democrats always go for some centrist/conservative for the big federal seats. The local seats and minor congressional seats are the only places progressives have a chance. Hence why it is fantasy land to try this stuff for federal positions and not so for local.
So use that, leverage the democratic party into being a party that actually serves the people to make progress, and we'll be doing significantly better. Splitting the vote to get Trump in power will only serve to hurt women, minorities, and the LGBTQ.
Would you characterize your position as “vote however you like unless it’s a state level or higher position for which the democrats are running someone.”?
How would you say the gbu-39 2000lb jdams Biden is sending to Israel impact women, minorities and the lgbtq in Gaza?
That's an over simplified take. There are races where the only two candidates are establishment democrats and republicans, even at the local level. I am saying be realistic with your vote, and don't split the vote if a republican has a chance.
This may surprise you, but there are women, minorities, and the LGBTQ in places outside of Palestine. And they're gonna get hurt if the vote gets split thanks to people like you, who put their need for "clean" hands over the safety of others.
So your outlook would be more accurately characterized as: first, when there is a republican who has chance to win a seat, vote the candidate who is most likely to defeat them, otherwise vote whoever you like at the lower levels?
Putting the defeat of some party’s candidates ahead of the support of one’s own views seems deeply flawed. If it’s more important that those people never hold power then wouldn’t it make more sense to actually take real physical action against them instead of employing a calculus of strategic voting?
It really does seem like you started with the conclusion that we should vote for Biden and are working backwards from there to reenforce it.
Where else are American supplied bombs being dropped on women, minorities and lgbtq people?
I’m not worried about clean hands, I’m not the person sitting at the head of the most powerful military apparatus the world has ever seen sending munitions to be aimed at tents full of refugees: I’m worried about the people dying by American weapons while my government protects the people wielding them.