this post was submitted on 20 May 2024
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[–] 3volver@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago (26 children)

We're in late stage capitalism. Getting rid of the gold standard was one of the biggest mistakes in US history.

[–] clearedtoland@lemmy.world 23 points 6 months ago (12 children)

It blows my mind that the world basically runs on Monopoly money and accounting smoke and mirrors.

[–] undergroundoverground@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago (11 children)

For a while now, I've had a hypothesis that money does have a real, tangible underlying asset attached to it, in the exact same way as it used to be backed by gold or oil.

The underlying asset is human capital and the value is derived from human labour.

The reason for my belief is because private banks actually create 80% of the money in circulation. They create this money when they issue loans.

How do we determine the amount of loan we can take? The amount of money we earn. We earn money either via our own labour or someone else's. Ergo, money is created at the value human labour you own, like how we used to do so with gold and oil.

Money here acting as both an iou and as a labour token, in the same way a British Bank note was both an iou for gold and affected gold prices, we have been buried under a labour debt our great grandkids would come close to paying off. Printing of future Labour ious also depresses wages for everyone who works for their money.

Imo, its much worse than monopoly money.

[–] halowpeano@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Well yeah. If you trace it backwards, before fiat, what was commodity backed currency? What inherent value is there to gold and silver? Back then there was little industrial use, it was just useful as something to trade for other things.

So going back further, at it's core, currency is just a middle man to bartering. Instead of trading the grain you labored to grow for shoes from the cobbler, when you don't need shoes right now, you take gold/shells/beads knowing you can use them to trade for repairs to your plow from the blacksmith. Currency has always been a social construct, not inherent to the commodity.

This is actually one argument against the hoarding behavior of the ultra wealthy. It disrupts the natural economy and creates unhealthy power dynamics. The rich person can distort labor away from productive things healthy for future development of the society, say by using their vast wealth to pay a ton of farmers to build statues of the rich guy, until suddenly there's famine because no one is growing food.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

So going back further, at it’s core, currency is just a middle man to bartering. Instead of trading the grain you labored to grow for shoes from the cobbler, when you don’t need shoes right now, you take gold/shells/beads knowing you can use them to trade for repairs to your plow from the blacksmith. Currency has always been a social construct, not inherent to the commodity.

This is what David Graeber calls "The Myth of Barter" and has no basis in history or anthropology. Trade was happening for thousands of years before the first currency was invented in the 6th Century BC. There are other ways to arrange trade that don't require currency as an exchange of value.

For example, if I were a barley farmer in ancient Mesopotamia and I wanted to get drunk before harvest, I could write an IOU for part of my barley harvest to the bar owner. Then, if he needed to buy something he could take my IOU and trade that for whatever it was. This IOU would go round and round the economy, but it also made them pretty unstable if the barley crop didn't meet expectations.

If this is interesting to you I highly recommend the book Debt: The First 5,000 Years which goes into a lot of detail about many different economic systems that have existed.

[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Think the point is that alternative strategies were in play when the biggest, most overwhelming cities in the world were maybe 100k people, the world population was 1% of what it was today, and economic activity was relatively limited in what sorts of goods and services were for trade.

Currency came about because as the indirect bartering relationships became overly complex and the number of participants exploded.

Though the currency situation did set up a sort of 'meta' of gaming the numbers for sake of the numbers themselves, which grew out of control until breaking the gold standard. Of course it's still out of control, but what we see is nothing compared to the instability of a gold standard currency trying to tackle current day human activity.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

IIRC it had a lot more to do with exerting central control on trade. That's why going back to their invention coins had pictures of rulers on them.

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