this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2023
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Liberal economics be like let's get rid of capitalism
That's left or socialist. Left doesn't equal liberal.
Left doesn't equal liberal and liberal equals not capitalism. Both are true
No, those are socialist economics.
To-may-to to-mah-to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism
Yeah that's the scam. Not actually liberal
It appears you havent read your own link there.
I don't know if I can be clearer than it is. It's very obvious that capitalism is not compatible with liberalism. Conservative capitalists try to use terms like "economic liberalism" with results showing the opposite
and when we click on "economic freedom":
The commenter suggesting you should read your own links was right...
Thinking is also allowed. Is capitalism producing that freedom? No, it's stifling it. It's just a buzzword for them
Oh thats what you meant lol. I thought you meant "Not actually liberal" in the sense that the label of the political ideology I put forth for them is wrong, you meant they aren't actually for freedom which is the literal meaning of the word.
Ah ok
And I do mean the political ideology where liberalism means the things included in liberalism.
It's just that the later rightwing/capitalist highjackings of the word aren't true.
Liberalism has always included a free market economy though? That's what Marx was mainly against, a free economy where the means of production are owned by those with the means to purchase them on the free market. He was a "liberal" in the 19th century sense in that he was in favour of a free press and abolishment of the monarchy but he saw private ownership of land/factories etc as problematic because of the serfdom it leads to. These ideas (edit: democracy, freedom of expression etc.) however are now really mainstream and when people talk about "liberals" they mean those who are in favour of a free market economy. Free as in "i am free to buy what I want regardless of my birth" not free as in "I am entitled to basic human necessities required to live a free life even if I can't afford them" is what most people mean when they talk about liberal ideology.
And that's the issue. The latter, of being free to even have the the possibility for economic freedom, is liberalism in it's essence. And that's not happening in capitalism. Under capitalism only the rich are free, so liberalism happens outside of capitalism.
No it isn't. That's just not what people mean when they talk about "liberalism". Liberalism's core idea is around a free (liberal) market. Just like how socialism's core idea is around a collectivization of the means of production. You cant be a capitalist socialist and you cant be an anticapitalist liberal. It doesn't make sense.
Tying liberalism to the market is an afterthought. Its core is in social freedom.
Only the rich are free in capitalism
If it is its not mine. This is what people talk about when they talk about liberalism. If you want to use the word differently you should clarify that from the start b
People should read up on liberalism and stick to it instead of capitalist newspeak
And we who know better can always correct the misuse
If people "read up on liberalism" they'd be reading the definition of it which includes free market capitalism, because this is what textbooks on the matter will associate with liberalism. Not your definition of it which is shared by almost no one.
Even the Wikipedia article is 95% social freedom. And any critical person could see that when it mentions the additional economic liberalism is not possible under capitalism
Easy test: Does everyone have the possibility to be economically (or otherwise) free in capitalism? No. Therefore liberalism is impossible with capitalism
I think you're confusing the US definition of liberal with the definition of liberal in near the rest of the world. Even in Canada the Liberals are centre at best
Nah I'm not. I know that US/UK/AUS/anglosphere capitalists try to say they're liberal but there's nothing liberal under a capitalist hierarchy. Apparently they're trying to be sneaky in Canada as well
Ahh gotcha, I wasn't sure. And yeah the Liberals here are like progressive classic conservatives. They're not insane like current conservatives but they like to maintain the current status quo and will occasionally give us something like dental care but limit it to a very small subset of people. And that's only if forced to by the supporting left leaning party (NDP).
Yeah exactly. Conservatives & authoritarians really like to market with phrases like "economic liberalism" or "free markets". Always building a power structure which limits freedoms