this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

They aren't though. See the complaints about the economy. The youth vote is very vocal, but they don't have the money to make up for lost donations from the Pro-Israel PAC.

[–] distantsounds@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It’s this mentality that will give the US another Trump presidency. If you are worried about losing money from a Pro-Israel PAC because you won’t stop aiding an active genocide, you aren’t fit to make decisions for a major country. Not aiding genocide is kinda important. And yes, the economy sucks for students and the working class. That’s why they don’t want to send bombs (with their tax dollars) to Israel, when the people here need the funding more.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I'm sorry you find political facts inconvenient.

Here's what the students and pro-Palestinian movements are up against:

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?ind=Q05

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S

There simply is no equivalent on the other side, so instead we get:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/17/pro-israel-money-progressives-congress-challenges

and:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/22/aipac-pro-israel-lobby-group-us-elections

The students can barely live, they can't afford to contribute at this level.

So, yeah, despite all of Israel's bad behavior, going back decades now, US support will continue going to them, because politicians can't afford otherwise.

[–] distantsounds@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That sounds like something a PAC would say lol. Self-fulfilling prophecies

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Well, when the students are actively complaining about not being able to afford rent or food, that's the big indicator that they don't have money for political donations:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/16/food-insecurity-us-college-students

https://www.homemattersamerica.com/the-invisible-cost-of-college-students-who-cant-afford-a-secure-home/

Now, I'm not saying you HAVE to donate to get politicians to do the right thing... but, yeah, you kinda do.

[–] distantsounds@lemmy.world 14 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Well it sounds like the current government is not providing a path forward for them to support themselves, so I hope it doesn’t come as a surprise when they don’t come out to support the current government. Especially one that is involved in active genocide and shutting down their peaceful protests.

I agree that you cannot dispute the power PACs and the Pro-Israel lobby has. It is unfortunate that money runs the US government. It is even more unfortunate that people apologize for it

[–] go_go_gadget@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

It's crazy how people come out and paint this dismal picture and then complain about voter apathy. Like, literally after they just got done telling people the things they will vote for will never, ever happen.

[–] go_go_gadget@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

Then it's game over already. We lost.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

They aren’t though. See the complaints about the economy.

We should keep supporting genocide because gaslighting the poor hasn't worked?

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world -2 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Supporting Biden isn't supporting genocide, that's a false argument.

Biden is supporting Israel because that's where the PAC money is and poor college students can't make up that difference.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Biden is supporting Netanyahu's genocide. Should he continue because gaslighting the poor hasn't worked?

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Ah. It’s okay if it’s blood money. Cause only Biden and his Israel money can be our option. So. Fucking. Stupid.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world -3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

They really don't care where the money comes from so long as they get it. That's kind of the whole point.

I love linking to this clip from Bulworth, it never gets old, more people should watch that flick:

https://youtu.be/-Cg7Z2eZmcM

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 4 points 6 months ago

That is not the society I would prefer to live in. That being said. That looks like a movie worth watching lol

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Man, the absolutist crowd is out in force today.

  • I don’t “support” Biden, but there is a 100% chance I will be voting for him in November, simply due to the vagaries of the American electoral system.
  • not voting for Biden is leaning in to the electoral system being intentionally skewed to the right through various sketchy tactics
  • not combating that rightward skew will likely lead to Trump winning the election
  • trump winning the election will likely lead to Trump doing something absolutely heinous in naked support of Israel’s genocidal actions, like carpet bombing parts of Gaza with a few squadrons of B-52s like it was the Vietnam War (amongst a shitload of other terrible things both related to Israel and not)

As always, context kinda fucking matters a lot.

Edit: all that said: I’m pretty sure the downvotes are due to how dismissive you are being of “poor college students”

[–] go_go_gadget@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Let me ask you a hypothetical, given the choice between continuing to ship weapons to Israel or Biden winning the 2024 election which would you choose?

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I’m sorry, no, that’s an absolutely idiotically framed question, to the extent that I’m quite confident you’re just trying to push agitprop.

To be clear:

  • Biden winning might eventually decrease or cut off weapon shipments to Israel, because though it’s often glacial, Biden DOES sometimes react to public sentiment (though often it’s politically delayed/timed, which is infuriating for people waiting for The Appointed Time where the announcement of some policy will have the greatest political impact)
  • Trump winning will likely mean that the USAF may be ordered to just help Israel carpet bomb Gaza into dust with a few squadrons of B-52s.

You’re presenting a dichotomy where there is none.

Edit:

Ok, let’s try this another way: which of the two presidential candidates that are advancing to the general election do you believe will actually stop shipping weapons to Israel, or at least has the possibility of being convinced of stopping the shipments?

I’ll give you a hint: it’s not Trump.

[–] go_go_gadget@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

I'm presenting a purely hypothetical choice. In a purely hypothetical situation where that choice is put in front of you what would you choose?

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Yup, as I said in another comment:

There are two viable candidates, Biden and Trump. Taking votes away from Biden only helps Trump. So not voting, voting Stein, Kennedy, West, all of that only helps Trump.

Helping Trump is supporting:

  1. A wanna be dictator:

https://apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian-presidential-election-f27e7e9d7c13fabbe3ae7dd7f1235c72

  1. Project 2025:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

  1. War with Mexico:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/donald-trump-mexico-military-cartels-war-on-drugs-1234705804/

  1. Soviet style imprisoning of political enemies:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/30/trump-interview-jail-political-opponents-glenn-beck

  1. Wiping out Gaza "fast":

https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-israel-pr-hugh-hewitt-21faee332d95fec99652c112fbdcd35d

  1. Surrendering Ukraine to Russia:

https://visitukraine.today/blog/3712/trumps-peace-plan-is-to-surrender-crimea-and-donbas-to-russia-wp-reveals-details

  1. Abandoning allies in Europe:

https://apnews.com/article/trump-nato-presidential-election-congress-republicans-20e902788e8701999ce0424f73d478cc

So, yeah, when the alternative is maximizing negative impact, the only voting solution is to vote for the one person who can defeat that agenda... and that's Biden.

[–] Mastengwe@lemm.ee -4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

We finally agree on something. I still don’t know why you allow so much disinformation and false accusations in your community, but at least we can agree on this.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I try to let up and down votes do their job.

Bad opinions aren't necessarily misinformation.

[–] Mastengwe@lemm.ee -2 points 6 months ago

They also don’t show up when they’re needed.