this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2024
96 points (97.1% liked)

No Stupid Questions

35809 readers
2088 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Every time I see an ancient text translated, it always sounds like it was spoken by a classy Englishman from the 1800s. Is there a reason it's translated that way instead of modern English?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 73 points 7 months ago (4 children)

I'll focus on Latin because I don't know how much this applies to Greek, Sumerian, Sanskrit, Akkadian etc.

Lots of translators focus too much on individual words, and miss the text. So when handling Latin they

  • spam less common synonyms (specially Latin borrowings)
  • try to follow Latin syntax too closely into English
  • use large sentences full of appositions

Less common words, fancy syntax, large sentences? That makes the text sound old timey.

I'll give you a practical example with Caesar's De Bello Gallico. Granted, the translation is from the 1800s, but even for those times it's convoluted:

[Original] Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur.

[Bohn and McDevitte] All Gaul is divided into three parts, one of which the Belgae inhabit, the Aquitani another, those who in their own language are called Celts, in our Gauls, the third.

There's almost a 1:1 word correspondence. With the following exceptions:

  • "the" - because not using it in English makes the text sound broken
  • "in", "of" - because English demands prepositions more frequently than Latin
  • "their own" - because English lacks a 1-word equivalent for "ipsorum"

For reference here's how I'd translate the same excerpt:

Gaul is split into three parts. One is inhabited by the Belgae; another, by the Aquitani; the third one, by those who call themselves "Celts", and that we call "Gauls".

I'm not a good translator, mind you. And I'm myself fairly pedantic. Even then, I believe that it delivers the point better - it's streamlined, using concise and clear language, like a military commentary written by a general is supposed to be. But it is not a 1:1 like those guys obsess over.

[–] Mastengwe@lemm.ee 12 points 7 months ago

Wow! Awesome explanation! Thanks!

[–] z00s@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

Good translation is as much an art as a science, even between modern languages. I wish more translations focused on intent rather than a literal 1:1

[–] milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's a pretty good example. If you get into Bible translation you'll find there's a massive world of stuffingy* about different translation approaches. Because as well as having what I presume is by far the largest and longest collective scholarship to study and translate, plus textual criticism over multiple ancient copies, plus emotional hand-me-downs (people liking the KJV because it's what they grew up with), it's also considered by many translators to be the holy word of God, so "I think my translation's a bit clearer than yours" becomes "therefore yours falsely represents the very Words of God and may deceive people away from following the Truth!!!!"

Fascinating stuff, though.


*I meant to write 'argument' but gboard thought 'stuffingy' is better.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 4 points 7 months ago

Yup. And the Bible is a notorious example of that, since a lot of versions are retranslations from Koine Greek, Aramaic and Old Hebrew into Latin into modern languages. And even if the Latin Vulgata was well made*, you're bound to have the process happening twice.

*It could be worse. One of the reasons why Jerome worked on the Vulgata was because he didn't like the Greek translations of Hebrew texts. Without that, people would be translating into modern languages the Latin translation of the Greek translation of Hebrew texts. Yup.

[–] cymbal_king@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

Thanks! This is the closest thing I've seen on Lemmy to an r/AskHistorians thread, wish we had more of that