This is like survivorship bias, but in reverse. Obviously almost everyone who killed themselves with a gun had access to a gun, but this doesn't mean that they wouldn't have committed suicide by some other means if they didn't have access to a gun.

This is something that is impossible to determine scientifically. If everyone in this study group killed themselves with a gun, how many of them would have not killed themselves if they didn't have a gun? They can't un-kill themselves and let us take away their guns so we can determine the effect.

What this study shows is that a gun is likely the first choice of gun owners who are trying to kill themselves. It cannot determine how much less likely they would have been to kill themselves had they not owned a gun, if at all. Intuitively I do believe that it would be less, because other means are likely more difficult, slower, or less effective. Whether this would result in slightly fewer suicides or much fewer I do not know, but this study doesn't prove either.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 11 points 7 months ago

Let us preface this with the statement that I believe people sound generally have access to guns if they want them.

Access to guns absolutely increases your risk for suicide. The fundamental reason is that having a gun and ammo available to you makes suicide accessible and quick. The urge to kill yourself is spontaneous and short lived, small barriers can and do save lives.

I want to repeat something fundamental to this study. The reduced suicide rate caused by limiting access to guns was not compensated for by an increase when guns were reintroduced. Restricting gun access saved lives. Full stop.

Again, I like guns. I think you should have a gun if you want one, barring any obvious reasons you shouldn't have one. But, I'm not gonna ignore reality; guns increase your risk of suicide. Life is full of risk, I think this one is acceptable.

[–] tron@midwest.social 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

What this study shows is that a gun is likely the first choice of gun owners who are trying to kill themselves. It cannot determine how much less likely they would have been to kill themselves had they not owned a gun, if at all.

I wonder how many people choose other methods of suicide (Hanging/Drug OD) when they had a gun available.

[–] bluewing@lemm.ee 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

When I was a medic for 15 years, I was paged out to 4 suicides, two self hanging, one OD, and one wrist slashing, (all male). Nor can I remember any reports of suicide by gun either. There were also good number of attempted OD's though. And this was in a rural community where almost every home had at least one gun and often more.

I don't think anyone could prove one way or another why guns didn't seem to be a choice for suicidal people in that community. I certainly don't know. But people who are not of sound mind often do strange things for inscrutable reasons.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They're kind of notorious for people surviving the attempt, with stories of shattered jaws and a life of brain damage afterwards.

[–] bluewing@lemm.ee 2 points 7 months ago

There, at the very least some truth to that. I did run across one failed attempt with a gun that fit that bill.