Let's say we have a basket of apples. The world's most powerful apples. And they all look rotten and diseased, we know the reasons which make them rotten, it's peer reviewed and considered a fact.

So then we make a leap of faith. What if despite evvvvvvveeeerrrything, this one apple is actually pure and holy. And only a few know this for sure and they're not letting anyone else know the proof.

That's very wonderful but, kinda sketchy at the same time?

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The metaphor you’re constructing seems to be one part forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge and one part bad apples, and I don’t quite follow.

The general population doesn't know what's happening, and it doesn't even know that it doesn't know. — Noam Chomsky

Most people don’t know they’re being propagandized in the first place, so it doesn’t occur to them to see past it. And of those who do notice, most don’t have the time, energy, skill set, and inclination to dig out the truth. It’s not impossible, but it is a lot of work. The information is accessible, but corporate media generally aren’t going to provide it.

[–] tiredturtle@lemmy.ml 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

It's not a metaphor relating to those. You can substitute the apple for anything you like, the fruit is not a relevant object. It just carries similar properties. They can be called 'Notexistilandia', 'United Territories of Nowhereon' or 'Countrystan'. Whatever helps.

You're very close with Chomsky and people not knowing!

What I mean is that the mystical prophecies of one true holy and pure — despite the evidence, like we've discussed, rely much on faith, instead of (and sometimes contrary) to knowledge. And general populations "knowledge", fooled, propagandized is just that — much closer to faith.

More Chomsky:

I think irrational belief is a dangerous phenomenon, and I try to consciously avoid irrational belief. On the other hand, I certainly recognize that it’s a major phenomenon for people in general, and you can understand why it would be. It does, apparently, provide personal sustenance, but also bonds of association and solidarity and a means for expressing elements of one’s personality that are often very valuable elements. To many people it does that. In my view, there’s nothing wrong with that. My view could be wrong, of course, but my position is that we should not succumb to irrational belief.

Idealistic nationalist supremacy is just a form of religion.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Maybe I see what you’re getting at, though I’m not entirely sure. American exceptionalism is a civil religion that conveniently supports bourgeois Americans and their imperialist interests.

[–] tiredturtle@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago

Yea muricans are always a good example of the lot. Thanks for discussing and taking part in the philosophical pondering, it's not usual here!