this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2024
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politics

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[–] paddirn@lemmy.world 61 points 8 months ago (2 children)

But sure, yeah... go ahead and just not vote. Letting Trump in will be so much better for the Palestinians.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 43 points 8 months ago (3 children)

A week ago, the difference between the two would have been that Trump would enable Israel in every way, while Biden would enable Israel in every way, but staffers would leak stories about how much Biden didn't like Netanyahu from time to time. Now, Biden has started sending aid to Gaza while Harris is calling for a ceasefire, and this is entirely because 100K voters in Michigan voted uncommitted. When done properly, threatening to withhold your vote can be an effective way to make your voice heard.

[–] hasnt_seen_goonies@lemmy.world 39 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think you make a great point, but I would add a caveat. There IS a difference between Biden and trump. One will listen to protesters, and the other won't. You can pressure Biden and he will change his position because he seems to care what voters think, and Trump doesn't.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

Yeah, I agree with that. And, to be clear, I think there have always been tons of differences between Biden and Trump on almost every issue besides Israel/Gaza. I was just saying that, on this single issue, the difference between Biden and Trump would have been mostly rhetoric, not policy, up until the Michigan primary voters convinced Biden to change. I definitely didn't mean to imply they were generally the same.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Now, Biden has started sending aid to Gaza

But he hasn't stopped sending weapons to Israel

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, I'm not saying there's been enough change, just that there has been some change, and it was brought on by people threatening to withhold their vote.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

it was brought on by people threatening to withhold their vote.

Its definitely been a wake-up call to the party. Watching Biden shed 20% of Democratic voter turnout in a fucking primary is something. Obama and Clinton never had these kinds of problems in '12 and '96. And guys that did - Carter getting burned by Ted Kennedy in '80 and Bush to Buchanan in '92 - should have been a warning to the party as a whole.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, I'll be honest, I'm very worried about this election. I'm still unhappy with Biden's approach to Israel, but at least now they can credibly argue that voting for him would be harm reduction for Palestinians. Maybe that will be enough to drive turnout.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

at least now they can credibly argue that voting for him would be harm reduction

Right until the polls close in November, at which point its back to business as usual.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Well...yeah, probably.