763
Michigan governor says not voting for Biden over Gaza war ‘supports second Trump term’
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
763 points (94.5% liked)
politics
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Objectively correct take.
You can validly hate Biden for the handling of Gaza. But not voting for him is just helping the Fascists win.
Swallow your pride. Do your duty at the ballot and then make the real changes by organising and protests.
No. It's not on the voters to show up no matter what. It's on the politicians to be someone we want to vote for. We already did "vote blue no matter who and pressure them for change later." And now we're funding a genocide. That's over. Now it's pressure time.
Absolutely correct. "Vote blue no matter who" got us here. The idea failed.
More objectively correct take:
Thanks to the political-parties highjacking governing-the-country,
they can commit any crime or abomination, whatsoever, and you only can choose between them, because the rigged-system won't permit anyone to have any alternative to what the incumbent political-parties offer.
There: fixed it for you.
You know 3rd parties run all the time right? We even have multiple senators right now that are independents
Okay, so then, do your duty, vote for biden, then work to support ranked choice voting?
Why do you think the neoliberals running the DNC will let ranked choice happen?
FPTP is the only reason neoliberals and Republicans can get elected, while they control both parties, we'll never get rid of it.
To get ranked choice, progressives first have to replace neoliberals, and then win so many elections it doesn't matter what Republicans want.
RCC isn't the cure, it's what we do after we win. Because it's not going to happen until after we win.
For anyone confused or refuting this in their mind, look up the DNC's history on ranked choice and the efforts they've used to stop it. The only effective legislation passed in a few states was done by citizens with outside state help.
Any reason it can't be done by referendums brought forward by the voters. Just need so rich Hollywood types to put up money and support.
It's complicated and I could go into details about every nuanced situation for a few hours. A few highlights,
Alaska for some reason is my favorite example
So its slightly possible, with millions of dollars from outside state support, years to campaign, and catching the main political parties unaware of your movements.
Zionism can be equated to fascism. Biden has stated multiple times that he is a Zionist. Neo-liberal fascists are already in power and they are destroying the left. you are saying do your duty at the ballot by saying vote this way or you are wasting a vote (that doesn't actually count anyway because the pop vote doesn't decide the presidency). I will do my duty by not partaking in sham elections for a two party state that I don't have any faith in whatsoever to deliver anything they promise. Because they have no obligation to fulfill anything they say they will do to get into office. That in itself is protest so I am doing the real changes, as you say.
They aren't destroying the left, there just has never been a meaningful left in America.
Sure that's why FDR never won in an absolute landslide.
It's why none of the last successful Democrat presidency runs over the last 2+ decades have been based on progressive reform and no Democrat would run with a slogan like "Change we can believe in" with only one outlier being the most recent election based on a distinct aversion to fascism.
America has never created national parks, new deals for farmers, or held up a man who was against war during the Cold war.
Nah. Left just doesn't exist.
national parks that still rob native peoples of their land? is that progressive to you? new deals for farmers, on stolen land? don't act like america is anything to be proud of, even the leftest leaning presidents still upheld the empire.
Better than drilling on it. You can't go back and undo history. It's happened. It's a shit take to just show it was someone else's land. It always is. We are all living in someone else's house and something else's environment, so I'm and so forth.
Yes we can be better in the future and should aim for that but just screaming that it's all crap is really derivative of every history of everything.
Its a shit response to say that everybody has had land stolen. Especially when those peoples are still alive. So if we are to be better, then we need to acknowledge that there is still justice undone. And again these native peoples are still here, they aren't gone. Native Hawaiians are actively being poisoned due to the US military's ignorance and neglect of their own infrastructure. Democrats aren't talking about that are they? Hawaii was illegally annexed but I'm sure Democrats vacation there just as much as Republicans. They are still fighting for rights to their land and anyone in Congress or the White House would say they can go fuck themselves.
Yes I'm actually fully in agreement that native Hawaiians are being pushed into extinction but that's part of the now that needs to be fixed. Actions have to be taken for the current issues and there may and very usually is history to navigate within because it does matter but you can't just ask for history to change we need to figure out solutions for now.
And yeah rich people of all parties aren't going to be particularly interested and it's obvious our government doesn't work right. Your original point that national parks aren't progressive is bad because even though stolen they are protected wild lands for hundreds of years. The new deal was a huge help to failing farms that are literally needed to feed people. We are facing inequality of massive magnitudes and climate change that is going to cause farming issues of the future, and climate refugees and economic refugees. We have to work with that now, looking at what the future we see from our choices with enough remembrance of the past but not clinging to it.
Unless you just want to be angry.
Edit: also my point is that eventually no matter what someone else will take your land whether they are your progeny or your replacement. It's never your land or your stuff. It's just temporary.
They aren't progressive. You can't forage on them, even if you are native. Its just for the white bourgois to enjoy. They are not protected for hundreds of years. Trump was able to sell some off to oil and natural gas. Biden didn't reverse it or stop it from continuing. You frame me as a child throwing a tantrum. "Unless you just want to be angry" Fuck off. If you aren't angry, then you aren't actually affected by it. We should be angry.
As if this isn't happening across the globe. American politics is not the only domain infested with the neolibs
You'll just be forfeiting your vote. The same reasoning can be heard in any country come election time, but in truth you're only making a gesture and its effects are contained in your mind. If you don't vote, even though all you said is true, this election system is a sham, etc. you're still helping Trump in the short term and the harm he will do to women, foreigners, anybody who's not rich, and the american society at large. Gestures, symbols and statements are good, but not at this price. I live across the world but if I could vote in the american elections, I would, and I'm not even part of any of these endangered demographics. I suppose you aren't either ?
I am an intersection of multiple demographics you mentioned and if you were any of them, you would know that biden and the democratic party has not done anything meaningful for any of them. Roe could've been codified, but he didn't. biden could've expand the court and add new justices, but he didn't. biden could've already secured a cease fire, but he hasn't. biden spat on the rail workers asking for one week sick pay. said nope, fuck you. he also has done practically nothing about amazons union busting. biden didn't give a shit about east palestine. flint michigan still doesn't have clean water. he could be creating legislation to protect trans kids and adults, but doesn't care. so what exactly is your argument about the oppressed demographics having better lives under democrats?
And furthermore, it is not just a gesture. Or at least its as much of a gesture as voting. Its effects are demonstrably not just "contained in my mind" because it is having an obvious effect on you and judging by the 16 upvotes on the comment, perhaps I have inspired or emboldened people to be just as critical as I am being. But you will say we are stupid or foolish or whatever you need to say. I say the fool is the one that continues to perform the same behaviour with no results and then tries to convince people to not do anything different. Look how worried they are of losing their power that they have to tell people that if you don't vote for us, its back to the trump. what a lovely threat from the people that supposedly care about us more than trump. i know they don't, i know trump doesn't care. they don't answer to us and you know it.