this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2024
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“We have to genocide the Palestinians to stop them from committing a genocide,“ is not a serious take.
I honestly can't grok the degree to which one must dehumanize a group to hold this position.
Are you truly this stupid? What do you think a war is?
The World Wars were Germany invading a bunch of countries, and the world telling them to go fuck themselves by killing over 10 million Germans between the two wars.... That's literally "to stop Germany from committing genocide, we committed genocide"
How young are you that you don't know this?
Sorry, are you referring to the defense against Nazi Germany as a genocide?
You are not a serious person. And you should investigate what it is within yourself that allows you to decide an entire ethnicity needs to be eliminated. Because it's psychotic.
Oh, so it's a defence when it's against the Nazi party, but not against Hamas?
Both of those groups are(or were) governments in their respective areas with stated plans to kill and replace a group of people in an area.
Hamas' official position is not simply to control Gaza, it's to wipe out and replace Israel.
You're the one who's not being serious.
Firstly, the first and only rule of the instance you are commenting on is "be nice", but you couldn't even do that for one comment. Why are you even here? It's like going to a place whose sole purpose is having somewhere where there isn't rubbish on the floor, and throwing something on the ground as soon as you set foot in the area.
Secondly,
This situation and WW2 are not remotely the same thing. And no historian would call what the allies did to the Germans "genocide", because it wasn't. What Israel is doing has been. And it will be remembered as such. Just some differences:
They don't hold even remotely the same kind of power and influence over the people in their region. The Nazis were given power through legal elections, Hamas was not. And Hamas is only in control in Gaza, not in the West Bank, where Palestinians still suffer at the hands of Israel.
The existence of Hamas is a direct consequence of what Israel has been doing for several decades; this conflict did not just start last year. There was not an ongoing genocide of Germans before WW2, and it's not how the Nazis came about.
WW2 was a war being fought between mainly armed soldiers, and people do not defend or support the bombing and killing of civilian targets, nor were they the primary targets. Israel has bombed and killed Palestinians indiscriminately, and that is what you are defending.
The rise of the Nazis before WW2 was definitely partly caused by the imposition of the allies after WW1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftermath_of_World_War_I
Of course the allies don't call it genocide, the winners of a conflict rarely refer to themselves in a poor light. They write the history books after all. They still killed about 8% of the total German population during WW2.
Almost 50% of German casualties during WW2 were civilians....
Your arguments don't even hold water against reality. How about you try again.
You ignored most of what I said, cherry-picked things, and even then had to leave out context and use vague language to make your argument seem anything less than insane.
You mean economic sanctions? Around the same time that Germany was suffering from those economic sanctions and Hitler was rising to power, the world was going through The Great Depression, and by the time Hitler rose to power Germany's economy was already improving. And even you are aware enough to use the word "partially" in that sentence. More on this towards the end (*).
That's an argument made by people who don't know history and have nothing to back their claims. I really would not be shocked if you tried to claim the Holocaust wasn't real, next.
I'm not gonna bother to check that number because 8% of the population of a country being killed during a war is not a genocide, and not even an inherent attempt at one. What the Nazis did to the Jews, and what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians, that is genocide. Push them away from where they live, close them off in ghetto's or walled compounds, and slowly kill them off. That's how the Holocaust started too, before they moved to concentration camps and gas chambers.
Firstly: According to this, about 2.25M civilians were killed during expulsions, and 500K Germans were killed by strategic bombing, but it does not specify how many are civilian. Even if we assume 100% of those are civilian and say the number of civilians casualties is 2.75M, that still only makes up 39% of the German death toll. That "almost" is certainly doing a lot of work there, for someone complaining about reality.
Secondly: How many civilians do you think make up the Palestinian death toll when they indiscriminately (and sometimes purposefully) bomb civilian areas? Israel has purposefully bombed civilian targets; 4 in 10 killed in Gaza are children; just in 2023 22K Palestinians were killed.
Finally: That still doesn't cover the important part you ignored, which is that no one is defending the bombing of German civilians during WW2, (*) and most people acknowledge the sanctions on Germany after WW1 were too harsh. Meanwhile, you are actively defending the ongoing killing of innocent civilians, and the genocide that has been ongoing for decades. Even if (and this is a giant fucking if) you were right in your comparison, you are merely arguing against yourself, because most people are not okay with any of those things.
You are somehow both (1): trying to equate Nazi Germany to Palestine, when Israel is the one doing to Palestinians what Nazi Germany was doing to the Jews, and (2): at the same time, purposefully or not, trying to victimize and justify the fucking Nazis.
I'm pretty sure we're not far from this conversation straying into Holocaust denial, either by you or someone else coming in here, so I'm leaving this convo permanently. I hope neither you nor your loved one ever get bombed because of people living in your general area; peace.
You are getting emotional about this and I know that you're afraid. You may be too afraid to hear what you need to hear right now. You have a common fear among white people which is that if you lift your heel from the neck of those you oppress they will strike back at you and you will deserve it. By advocating to remove the heel of the Likud Party's boot from the necks of Palestinian people, we are not saying that we expect Palestinians to kill all Jewish people and support their "right" to do so. We actually expect that not to happen, as there is no precedent for that happening when a nation extends rights to formerly oppressed people. We are saying that Palestinians are human beings who do not deserve genocide as no group of humans deserves genocide. This idea which I believe strongly was proliferated mainly by Jewish groups and individuals.
When African nations turned their backs on Israel after the six-day-war causing them to have to collaborate with the ex-Nazi head of the Apartheid South African government John Vorster to have the means to continue their genocide rather than change course and restore those relations, it was not because everyone in all those nations suddenly wanted to kill all Jewish people. It was because they had experienced the kind of violence inflicted by the nation of Israel in the six-day-war by people like John Vorster and opposed that kind of violence being enacted against anyone.
In fact, by being the main or only exposure many people have toward any Judaism and claiming that opposing genocide is the same as opposing Judaism, Israel is now proliferating anti-semitism due to their behavior and propaganda and putting everyone affected by anti-semitism in greater danger. Likud Israel must cease their siege and rebuild Gaza at the very least, and ultimately Isreal must free its prisoner population by granting them citizenship and equal rights in Israel. The alternative is maintaining this intolerable situation or enacting a kind of "final solution" one way or another which would truly be the end of Israel and any kind of Zionsim.
You're laboring under a misunderstanding.
I don't think Palestinians are going to strike back and hurt Israel. I think Iran will do it, because Iran is using Palestine as a proxy to conduct a larger war against Israel.