Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
!feminism@beehaw.org
!askmen@lemmy.world
!mensmentalhealth@lemmy.world
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This is literally the centre of the incel problem.
Would you be willing to expand a little bit for the purposes of discussion?
Oh for sure!
I’ve known several incels, and in my experience, their entitlement to sex is really just an extension of wanting to feel loved.
Men grow up in a near drought of love and physical affection. After about 5 years old, we can’t hug our best friends.
Then men are told that they will pick a blushing bride that will be everything to them.
And when that doesn’t work, they become bitter and don’t know what to do with the rejection, because they have shit coping skills and mix up their entitlement for love with an entitlement for sex.
It’s a mess. I’m not absolving the incels of their shitty behaviour, but I’m also not going to say that “they deserve to feel unloved”
But I think the solution starts with recognizing that the incels actually want love. In my experience, women want to feel loved, and THEN trust you physically with sex. This makes sense because the physical danger for women is very real. Men seem to do it backwards. They want to get physical first and then trust you with love, since emotional danger is very real to them.
Anyways I’ll stop rambling, this is a mix of facts and personal experiences, but I really stand by the general point.
I think you really have hit the nail on the head about how sex is the only source for a lot of important emotions and needs that is socially acceptable in a toxic gender roles based system. Sex is the only place that physical intimacy, honesty, giving / receiving pleasure, tenderness, feeling sexy etc. can be achieved. Most people cannot express that correctly and can't see they can get it elsewhere. This causes tons of issues for people both within and without relationships.
💯
The amount of pressure it puts on a partner to be your sole source of emotional confort is tremendous.
The other option for men is solitude.
There is a better way.
For sure. Be the change you want to see to all your male friends. I hug all my friends and have started complimenting my male friend a lot more. It's infective
INCELS need to realise their problems stem from needing to be loved. It's not anyone else's job to understand them and fix their lives FOR them. But we can help them understand insofar as they're willing to learn.
The second thing they and all of us need to realise is that we can't get ALL our love from romantic partners. That puts a HUGE burden on the relationship. We need to learn how to share platonic love again. That's what's breaking us men. If we can't learn to love eachother without toxic masculinity telling us it's "gay" or whatever, then we're doomed to losing men to loneliness, despair, and inceldom.
^ mic drop moment.
This is the men’s revolution that’s needed. The feminist revolution came, and was absolutely necessary, and now we need one for men. We didn’t keep up with the times.
Exactly right. The queer and feminist community made it acceptable to be whoever they want to be. Time for men to join the forces and do what makes them happy and to not what they think they have to. Remember that if someone else likes something different or hates something you love that doesn't diminish your enjoyment
I really think you nailed it here
Thanks, I go through great pains to try and truly understand issues rather than “grab the pitchforks”
It’s all too easy to see someone as evil, rather than just a person hurting. Once you see the hurt, you have to be careful not to go all “bleeding heart” and excuse their crimes.
This always seemed strange to me. I need a emotional connection to a person first, to have sex with them. Given I can establish one rather fast.