this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2024
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[–] viking@infosec.pub 46 points 10 months ago (13 children)

Leaving reddit was a good idea, joining Lemmy, I'm not so sure anymore.

The userbase here is not really diverse in itself, so the whole platform gets this large echo chamber vibe. And with "not diverse" I don't mean hostile or anything, just very homogeneous. Overwhelmingly left and far left on the political spectrum, embracing all things LGBT+, high nerd & tech factor; and if you don't belong to or identify with either of those factions, you get downvoted to oblivion, and worse yet, mod removed and banned for no factual reason.

What made reddit strong as a platform was that you had the right kind of diversity and a big enough userbase to not spiral out of control, unless the top management fucked up.

On Lemmy, instance admins are (or become) often the worst offenders, making any interactions with users on their instance tiresome, unless you regurgitate the same stuff that has been said there over and over and over again.

[–] Twelve20two 49 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well, in defense of Lemmy, it's nice to feel like I've got a lower chance of encountering Nazi rhetoric when in one of the anime/manga related instances

[–] viking@infosec.pub 11 points 10 months ago

Oh I didn't mean to say that Lemmy is bad or wrong, far from it.

[–] Lemminary@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Overwhelmingly left and far left on the political spectrum, embracing all things LGBT+

And that's what makes it great. I don't get this idea that it'd be better if that wasn't part of the demographic. Like, what value does being anti-LGBT or neutral-but-whiny bring to the table, for example?

Bringing opposing points of view like that for the sake of it didn't help Reddit, but only strained moderation and made the user experience worse when we had to deal with so many hateful bigots for no good reason. I saw one sub get overrun by these people and practically squeeze everyone out in a coordinated effort. One of those subs became unequivocally anti-trans in a matter of weeks. It was awful.

[–] blackn1ght@feddit.uk 13 points 10 months ago

And that’s what makes it great.

Not really. It's very tiresome when pretty much every thread turns into "capitalism bad" even from the most benign topics. Not that I disagree with it but it's just everywhere, to the point it's becoming a meme. That's what viking is talking about, there needs to be more diversity in the discussion otherwise it's just everyone circlejerking saying the same things over and over. It's not attractive to anyone that doesn't share those same views.

You can open a thread and almost play a lemmy bingo with the comments:

  • No matter the topic, capitalism will be blamed
  • Why are you driving 10 miles to that place? You should walk instead!
  • We should ban cars and replace them with trains. Put trains everywhere!
  • Linux good, Firefox best
  • A story on a cop dying will have lots of comments celebrating their murder and calling for more policemen to die
[–] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

As far as being anti-LGBT, there is no room for outright bigotry on any online space. Not being a FOSS zealot, not being anti-capitalist, and owning a car is not bigotry though

[–] viking@infosec.pub 3 points 10 months ago

Like, what value does being anti-LGBT or neutral-but-whiny bring to the table, for example?

Anti-LGBT, none. But discussions here are increasingly centered on LGBT topics, which just doesn't concern me one way or another. And yes, I simply avoid them, it's just popping up in every thread, related or not. I'm not close minded or anything, I just don't want to have every discussion drift into issues that don't concern me.

On the political side, why is it either left, right, or neutral but whiny? There's quite a large number of neutral and not whiny people out there. My issue is that when I try to point out that some idealistic leftist topics will never work in a material society, I'm being attacked for no reason, so I withdraw from discussions (or don't even engage anymore at all); thus contributing my share to the growth of the echo chamber and the decline of post volumes.

[–] shapptastic@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm relatively moderate politically but certainly not anti-diversity, but as a hypothetical example, lets say you're a new urbanist with a full on ban cars mentality, if I suggested say, daylighting intersections and offering cheap/free parking lots instead of street parking, that opinion might be downvoted to oblivion / mods may ban me because I don't follow that orthodoxy. If you're someone who enjoys the conversation and rebuttal portion ( I do, its something I enjoy about reddit), getting 100 people into a post who all think the same is boring as sin. Honestly, if for example on reddit, r/conservative wasn't such an echo chamber, i'd contribute on that subreddit too just to hear difference of opinion and try to understand the logic behind certain viewpoints.

[–] dumpsterlid@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

Honestly what kind of conversation are you looking to have? I don’t need to waste my time listening to libertarian babies who haven’t fully developed their sense of empathy nor even a genuine awareness that they will be sick and frail one day like the people they constantly shit on for needing handouts.

I’d rather an echo chamber with people having genuinely progressive, illuminating conversations than a bunch of babies all screaming words they don’t even really understand the meaning of…. which is all to say I am perfectly fine with how left this space is.

[–] Sanyanov@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

As a left-leaning (okay, outright communist), LGBT-supporting, Palestine-supporting (even pre-war), techy and nerdy person (i.e. Lemmy looks like it was made for me, lol), I still heavily agree we need some diversity here. Without it, Lemmy will never really be what Reddit has become. And we have all tools at our disposal - we are federated! So it becomes a little weird and phenomenal that we get such bubbles in here. But, I guess, this stems again from the small size of Lemmyverse - kind of a vicious circle.

Mastodon has more diversity, so maybe we just have to grow out of the current state? I don't have the answers.

[–] dipshit@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The good thing about Lemmy is you can create your own instance.

[–] viking@infosec.pub 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't really help with how other instances are moderated/administered. Sure, I'm in control of what I see or not, but user interactions are by and large the same regardless of where my account is created.

[–] dipshit@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Yeah, I mean.. I can’t control what type of food you’re going to eat, but I’m ok with that. We’re still having a converation, and that’s the important part.

[–] Nomecks@lemmy.ca 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I think you're confusing your current instance for the Fediverse. You can join Beehaw or another federation with different viewpoints. Granted the "main" instances are largely like the internet of old.

[–] viking@infosec.pub 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

My current instance is very hands off and doesn't defederate with anyone, that's why I chose it. And Beehaw is one of the left/alternative ones that I mentioned. I don't mind either one, but an overwhelming part of their users are delusive and tiresome to debate with.

[–] Mango@lemmy.world -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Where can I find these instances with good descriptions from the admins and users? Lemmy.world is not the place.

[–] viking@infosec.pub 2 points 10 months ago

My main account is with lemm.ee, they are very open and transparent in their communication.

[–] S_204@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago

This place is more of an Echo chamber than Reddit at this point. By far.

[–] velxundussa@sh.itjust.works 5 points 10 months ago

I think you are right about the lack of diversity.

My own take on it is that lemmy is currently populated by early adopters. There might be a relation between beign open to try new things and being left-leaning, I don't know.

But I do think that over time, if Lemmy survives it's early day phase, more people joining should bring more doverse point of views.

[–] OrangeJoe@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This is my biggest issue with lemmy. The userbase is not particularly one I want to interact with or even read their comments most of the time. And it seems there is very little room for nuance or any real differing opinions. And worse, it seems most here are convinced they are correct (though that could be everywhere). There are a few niche communities devoid of that, but they are so small that there is either very little content or the same handful of people are doing all the posting.

Love the idea of lemmy as an alternative to reddit. In practice, it's absolutely not a place I want to fully spend my time.

[–] viking@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Let's see where it goes...

[–] set_secret@lemmy.world -2 points 10 months ago

Is..is that you Spez?