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UN experts alarmed by Alabama plan to kill prisoner using untried gas method
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2024
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So before people freak out too much- and yes, executions shouldn’t be a thing (I personally make a few exceptions… but I’m an asshole…) let’s take a moment and realize that nitrogen hypoxia is the method used in suicide pods
While yeah, the moments before it happen are probably terrifying for the condemned- and that probably is where they’re getting “torture” from… it’s far less painful and awful a way to go… than lethal injection or electric chairs or old-school gas chambers;
You were saying!
https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/11263777
Fucking barbaric
Yes, executions are barbaric. I won’t argue there (and will join you in their condemnation,)
It sounds as though they fucked it up, though. Industrial accidents with inert gassed flooding a room of unsuspecting people are pretty rare (most rooms aren’t sealed, etc,) there are cases where people never notice before dropping.
Shoulda known ‘bama would fuck it up somehow,
The mental state of the person is the difference. One person has willingly placed themselves in the suicide pod, while the other is likely to fight for air. If we're going to execute people we shouldn't be pacifying with that actually means.
So people on death row should suffer from more cruel methods? They should run the risk of botched executions from people that received no training? Nitrogen is safe and effective. Put a mask on, open the tank. That's it. Do we need to complicate the process? Would that make it better in your eyes? If we're going to execute people (which we fucking shouldn't) why do we have to make it worse?
That's not my point. My point is why sanitizer the reality of the situation? "humane" executions aren't for the person being killed. It's so the people doing the execution can feel good about themselves when it's done. If you cared about quick and painless, go back to beheadings. Considering how often we get things wrong in the justice system, prosecutors, judges, and the jury should be required to watch the execution as well. And once again Nitrogen gas has never been experimented on an individual that knows they are going to die. They will know during the process what is happening. It's just laughable to assume that people's experience with accidental nitrogen exposure will be the same as someone strapped down and knowing what is happening. How long do you leave them exposed? Maybe they just go into a comma, and come to after air returns to the room but are now brain dead. I just don't get how people have gone full circle back to suffocating executions?!
Ok. So I was right. Executions should be painful and cause suffering because that's the entire point. Quick, simpler, more effective,.more humane methods shouldn't be utilized because it is antithetical to executions. Inert gas asphyxiation has been tested and it is a popular method of assisted suicide. People use it often with the intention of dying. To say it hasn't been tested on people who know they are going to die is just flat out bullshit. Philip Nitschke a former physician and founder of Exit International developed the exit bag with the specific intent of providing a peaceful way for people to kill themselves, assisted or not. He also invented the sarco pod for these exact reasons, using nitrogen as the preferred inert gas. Inert gas works well. Full stop.
It would also be very easy to ensure people are dead before removing them from the pod. It's called an ecg. Hell, even a pulse oximeter that displays heart rate (which is virtually all of them and can be obtained for a few bucks from a drug store) would work in a pinch. Monitor their heart rate, once asystole presents, wait a few minutes before removing the gas. It is exceptionally more simple to confirm death with inert gas than by other methods such as lethal injection, which is the most common nowadays. Do you know how easy it is to fuck up lethal injection?
I honestly feel like everyone is taking crazy pills to support the gas chamber 2.0
It's not like they didn't say the same fucking things about lethal injection, gas chamber, and the electric chair.
This will inevitably back fire for several reasons.
The fact that you feel it's appropriate to compare this to gas chambers highlights how willfully ignorant you are. Nitrogen isn't zyklon B or cyanide and sulphuric acid. 78% of the air you breathe is nitrogen for fucks sake. The mechanisms at play are nothing like each other. They're not even on the same planet.
It's an incredibly simple procedure with essentially zero room for fuck ups. Can you put a mask on and turn a knob? Congrats, youve done it! We know how hypoxia presents in people that aren't being actively strangled. You get light headed, giddy, confused, and then you pass out. All within a minute. It's quick, potentially euphoric and you'll be out before your oxygen starved brain knows what's going on.
If we're going to execute people, which we obviously shouldn't, them it should be as quick and painless as possible. I know you don't give a shit about that since you've stated twice that executions should be painful and cause suffering because "that's the point", but pull your head out of your ass. Stop getting off on the idea of painful executions and leave room for people who know what the fuck they're talking about to pave the way forward.
Your individual opinion doesn't matter, but if enough people are fooled into believing the same braindead garbage you're spewing then the cruel and innefective methods we're currently using will stay in use for the foreseeable future. Keep your dog shit opinions to yourself so it doesn't spread
I know the science behind the theory. Dude you have way too faith in states willingness get executions correct or that they'll actually care if asphyxiation via any type of gas is or isn't painful.
I have no faith in the state and I'm explicitly against execution. I support inert gas executions because I don't trust the state to use other means effectively. There is essentially no room to fuck it up. It's dead simple and requires minimal equipment or set up. You could fit enough nitrogen and masks to kill over 10 people in a backpack if you needed to. I don't care if they care if it's not painful. I know it isn't painful. Your contrarianism is hollow and based on nothing but your own ignorance
https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/11263777
Whelp you were wrong. Shocker
I wasn't wrong, they fucked it up. My comment was literally saying that it's still a viable method if performed correctly, which Alabama didn't do
The justice system can't even convict people properly and people still think they will get more elaborate ways of murdering people correct. They'll fuck this up every time because that's what they do
Oh geeze lol. Didn't even realize this was from a month ago. I'm an anarchist and prison abolitionist, I'm very much tuned in to the flaws of our system and am wholeheartedly against it.
The entire point of what I was saying is that this is less likely to fuck up and it's more humane when done properly. I regret that they botched this and know that it's going to be used as evidence against it by the state and people like you. The effects of botched lethal injections are significantly worse and it's likely they will continue to happen now.
Even with the complications of this execution I can all but guarantee you that this man suffered less than those that died of a flawed lethal injection did. What sounds worse to you, suffocating or being lit on fire from the inside? That's the choices people are faced with in this system. I feel compelled to restate (as I did several times throughout our last exchange) I think the death penalty is immoral and needs to be abolished, my arguments are purely pragmatic and I stand by them. If the state is going to perform executions, nitrogen is the way to go. I hope they alter their process because they clearly fucked this extremely simple method up.
Nitrogen isn't a more elaborate means of execution, it's simpler. They used the wrong mask and thats it. Your entire conception of the process is profoundly flawed
Of you actually cared about painless methods beheadings would be the go to regardless.
I think most people would prefer to remain intact if we're taking the victims wishes into consideration but sure. If you think nitrogen is terrible, go ahead and try to convince people that beheadings are the best way forward lol. You'll find yourself in my situation; arguing with people as unpleasant, uninformed, misguided, and willfully ignorant as you are. I wish you the best with your inadvertent journey to look in the mirror
That's a very strange interpretation, one which can be used against any change to any procedure for the purposes of reducing cruelty or barbarism. Do you really think gas chambers of all devices is to make people forget that someone is being executed?
That also raises the question of, how much less sanitized should it be then? Like, I think most would agree that medieval shit is too much sadism, so where do you think the line should be drawn? Oubliette? The rack? Hanging? Most innovations in execution are for the purpose of reducing unnecessary suffering, both for the executee and witnesses, because if you can perform capital punishment without the torture then opting for the torture is a choice, and most people are generally favorable to the idea of "less suffering is good."
The body doesn't actually sense the amount of oxygen in your blood. Instead, there's assorted ways it detects elevated levels of CO2.
That works great when you're e.g. swimming under water or are holding your breath. Low oxygen naturally coincides with excess CO2.
But it's dangerous in low oxygen environments. CO2 doesn't build up, so you don't sense that you're running low on oxygen.
People die accidentally from inert gas asphyxiation. It's sneaky like that.