377
Dave Chappelle fills Netflix special with jokes about trans and disabled people
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2024
377 points (77.4% liked)
News
23284 readers
3999 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I said it in his last special, a comedian doesn't punch down. Apparently he heard this criticism from others and decided to double down. He's truly become a piece of shit of a guy and I wouldn't be surprised if he's jumped on the Maga train.
"Punching down" also indicates that he thinks he's somehow on a different level from them. So, it should mean, for example, that he's making fun of comedians who are less successful than him. Or maybe it means he's making fun of people who have less money than him.
But, there's likely a trans person out there who has more money than him, so what does he actually mean? He's the one quoted in this special as saying "I love punching down!" Those are his words that he chose. Is he saying that he's inherently better than a trans person or a disabled person?
It used to be popular for white people to think they were inherently better than black people. Talk about a lack of perspective.
Harshly criticizing a powerful group or system (punching up) is considered fair social critique. Harshly criticizing a group or system that is already vulnerable (punching down) is just bullying. It's not about feeling superior in this context, it's just about someone with a huge platform using it to put down people who already have a harder life than they need to.
No, it's about people with too much time on their hands and no ambition to fight any real cause being able to pretend like they're doing something that matters.
So.. MAGA then? Sounds like maga.
Pretty sure the whole punching down thing comes from a story he told in one of these netflix specials where a trans woman in a bar told him she likes his comedy but that he needs to stop punching down against her people. He got all indignant about it and tried explaining that it's not punching down because he's black. His logic being that black people are so far down the totem pole it's impossible for any one of them to "punch down" against a different marginalized group.
Him using the phrase now comes across more to me as him reveling in the position that he's, in his mind, been mischaracterized into by the trans community. And less so him actually believing he's better than anyone.
Still not at all a good look. And he's definitely an asshole. The fact that he's still fixated on this one perceived slight that happened to him several years ago should tell you all you need to know about him. My dude has produced multiple Netflix comedy specials focused on getting back at a community he feels wronged by because a woman said something to him once in a bar that he didn't like.
It also ignores the existence of black trans people.
I interpret it as just being a less oppressed class laughing at a more oppressed class. But it does raise a good point.
Here’s well known social media karma harvester… George Carlin explaining the concept in… 1990
https://www.reddit.com/r/IsTheMicStillOn/comments/nx3gcz/george_carlin_speaks_on_punching_down_120/
"talk about lack of perspective"
Just a heads up, punching down is a term used in the comedy world. It's more like, telling a dumb joke that's easy. It's an easy win that most people will laugh at, rather than creating humor using actual skill.
Just a heads up, 'punching down' means 'To attack or criticize someone in a less powerful position'. That's the definition. It's not limited to the comedy world.
No it's not limited to it, but Chappelle is deeply part of the comedy world. That's where he would be using the term from.
and yet in comedy it still refers to attacking people in a less powerful position. It has nothing to do with jokes being easy or dumb.
I misread somehow, you're absolutely right.
Maybe the other person is thinking of low hanging fruit.
How can someone be so confident and yet so wrong? 😂
OR, ya'll are missing the joke entirely, in that he doesn't think he's 'punching down'... nore is he making fun of who you think he is.
In fact, the joke is at the expense of people like those in this thread who are getting bent out of shape taking words out of context. It was tailor made to upset YOU, specifically. YOU, and your unnecessary outrage, are the butt of the joke. He's mocking those who go overboard with the virtue signaling, and you all here are taking the bait hook, line & sinker.
There is a problem right now with self elected 'thought police' trying to remove all discourse, and that is VERY unhealthy for a liberal society. Totalitarianism is not healthy, no matter what your motivation is. Sacred cows are ALWAYS something to be targeted by comedy & satire, and the left wing totalitarianist word/thought police are very much a valid target, every bit as much as the MAGA idiots. For society as a whole, they are equally as dangerous, the end goal is the same but with different underlying motivations.
That being said, the special was lackluster. It felt like he was contractually obligated to give Netflix another special by the end of 2023 but didn't have enough material yet & even what he had wasn't very polished.
You've set off my 1984 alarm: Never use the term, "thought police" in reference to private individuals making decisions about others actions. If you actually read 1984 (it's a short book and easy to find online, go read it) the Thought Police were part of the government. As in, policing people's thoughts was a function of the government (in order to maintain the status quo, avoiding change aka extreme conservativism).
Here, you're referring to a collection of people that have decided--on their own--to boycott a comedian because they don't like where he stands on certain topics. That's not Thought Police! Call them snowflakes or "too sensitive" or "hysterical" or some other bullshit (don't care, really) but please for the love of Orwell stop using that term to refer to non-governmental entities or the actions of people that aren't part of any authority.
When the government starts cracking down on people's speech then by all means refer to this action as, "Thought Police".
Don't believe they aren't aware that they're hypocritical.
I have heard the 1982 argument numerous times from people that support banning books.
These strategies have been used for ages
~Jean-Paul Sartre
This represents a common issue in the discourse. Conservatives tend to use a group of people to try and score points against leftists, liberals people NOT a part of the minority while using the minority as nothing more than a weapon. It doesn't matter how much we get banged up. In this case it's cis people using the existence and expressed needs of trans people to try and discredit other cis people while misrepresenting the needs and causes of trans people. We are not bullets to be fired at our own defenders.
You think no trans people are made to feel alienated by this? That in the shockwave following another bombing run we don't get to hear variations of this rhetoric in our workplaces and get to feel like we need to chose between our mental health and the precarity of keeping food on the table? That people won't feel empowered to come at us with new fodder to make us to routinely have to defend ourselves against whatever transphobic nonsense is getting panned as a "dig against the libs"? We fight for rights to actually live in our bodies with a mental load out that is hard for cis people to comprehend at a basic level and that gets represented as high humor by someone who very obviously hasn't got a clue during a time when we are under political fire and human rights campaigns have labelled the USA actively hostile to trans people. It's beyond poor taste, it's preaching to the ignorance and intolerance of people directly.
bigotry isn’t “intelligent discourse”, and calling out bigots for their bigotry isn’t “totalitarianism."
I will ask again- Is Dave Chapelle entitled to a Netflix Special?
Netflix is entitled to a Dave Chapelle special. Contracts were signed. We could be getting a Kanye moment, though.
That's a separate issue. That's a contractual issue. We're talking in terms of speech here. Because this whole 'thought police' thing sure makes it sound like his rights are somehow being violated if he doesn't have a Netflix special.
I'd think that trans people would feel more alienated by being treated with like they, unlike other people, are too fragile to handle being the butt of a joke.
There is definitely trans friendly humour that can see us be the willing butt of the joke... But representing us as "just pretending" or appealing to the squeamishness of cis people about our potential medical choices or making open commentary on our genetalia or coping strategies isn't exactly humour we can laugh along with when we face that shit from people regularly and have to either pretend it doesn't bother us or ask people to drop it just to move on with our day.
For you it's a novelty, for us it's fucking routine annoyance. People want to confront us to have these conversations about how we're weird or wrong or liars with us over and over again and repeat like mindless parrots idiotic shit people believe about us that is patently false and then have the gall to wonder why we dislike them for it.
Chappelle wants to make believe he's saying the taboo things that people are forcibly restrained from saying to our faces... But we hear this shit from family members and friends we have to let go of and coworkers and random idiots who corner us in public. But when we ask people to please for the love of god just STOP they get offended and wheel out the "you can't tell me what to do!" and the "you're so fragile! "
We aren't fragile, we're just tired of your stale bullshit.
When I tell someone to shut the fuck up I'm merely expressing my own right to free speech, I'm not taking away someone else's right to speak! How is that "thought police"? They are still free to ignore me, they just have to deal with the fact that I disprove.
And that's what babies like this are really mad about. Baby can't stand the thought that people don't like him!
I'm also free to not watch his special, not give him money, and tell other people to do the same. And baby doesn't like that!
Is Dave Chapelle entitled to a Netflix special? Does he have a right to a Netflix special? Is not letting him have a Netflix special taking away his basic free speech rights?
If so, I want my Netflix special too.
Man, don't waste your time and energy.
Most of these commenters just want to be angry.
I agree with your comment 100%.
Wow, it usually takes some knowledge about a subject to come to a conclusion like that.
But you came to that conclusion without any knowledge at all.
Just like most of these comments about Dave Chappelle's latest standup.
Pretty on brand of you to form an ignorant and severely judgemental conclusion based on little to no information at all.
You sound like an American Republican.
You can't even make a real argument, and just use sarcasm and personal attacks.
Be angry at me all you want.
But next time you see such an obviously baiting headline, like this "article"... ask yourself if it's a real article or just clickbait that wants to trick you into scrolling through 40 ads to read something that doesn't expand on the headline AT ALL.
And then wonder if there is a lot of "news" floating out there meant to make you angry just so you drive traffic to the source.
If you question this kind of nonsense even once, moving forward, then these last 10 minutes was well worth the effort.
And here you are baiting, strawman after strawman
This whole thread is mostly about beating a Chappell-shaped straw man.
Have you watched the show or are you arguing here about what you've decided the show is about?
Because if it's the latter then yes, it's a straw man. It's basically a textbook straw man.
I'll take comments that show the individual has no idea what they are talking about, for $500, Alex.
it's essential to consider the broader context of oppression when discussing the dynamics of 'punching up' or 'punching down' in comedy. historically, black people have faced systemic oppression, which continues to impact their lives in various ways. this systemic oppression isn't just about individual experiences of racism but also about the overarching power structures that disproportionately affect black communities.
when a black comedian addresses topics related to race, they are often speaking from a place of personal and collective experience with these systemic issues. their humor might be a way to cope with or highlight the absurdities and injustices of these systems. therefore, even when their jokes might seem to target groups traditionally seen as more powerful, it's not the same as 'punching down.' 'punching down' implies attacking those who are less powerful or oppressed, and given the historical and ongoing context of racial oppression, a black comedian making jokes about race or related societal structures isn't an act of punching down but rather a form of social commentary or critique.
That doesn’t work against groups that are even further behind in their quest for civil rights. Trans people are still fighting to use bathrooms or participate in sports the Black people fought for 60-70 years ago.
the comparison between the struggles of black individuals and transgender individuals is valid, yet it's important to understand each community's unique challenges. while both groups share a common goal of equality and fair treatment, they face distinct battles rooted in different forms of discrimination.
black people have historically dealt with segregation, police brutality, voter suppression, housing disparities, and many other racially motivated issues. they've made significant progress in terms of civil rights over the past few decades, thanks to the efforts of activists, organizations, and legislation. however, there's no denying that these issues persist, requiring continued work towards eradication.
transgender individuals, on the other hand, primarily struggle with gender identity and expression. they fight against misconceptions, prejudice, and bias, which often manifests as restricted access to facilities, employment, healthcare, etc. trans people also experience higher rates of violence compared to the general population, which illustrates the severity of their plight.
while both groups have experienced similar periods where the right to basic services was denied based on an inherent characteristic, their journeys are not identical. this isn't about pitting one group against another; rather, acknowledging that the battle for equal rights is ongoing for everyone regardless of race, sexual orientation, gender identity, or any other aspect of human diversity.
What does this have to do with anything? He’s punching down, he’s not used to there being an unrelated group at the same level as a group he belongs too. The only comparison is the general level that he’s not punching up. That’s it.
The whole notion of you can't punch down never made sense to me. A group of people that you can't criticize or make fun of is not a group below you.
What do you mean "can't"? There's no law or anything, you can insult whoever you want just like Dave.
Then what's all the outrage about?