this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
64 points (81.4% liked)

politics

19096 readers
3633 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Bipartisan legislation sponsored by Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) aimed to establish a process with the ostensible goal of revealing the existence of “non-human intelligence” to the public. But the legislation, which is co-sponsored by three Republican and two Democratic senators, is now in jeopardy.

In comments yesterday on the Senate floor, Schumer stated that “House Republicans are also attempting to kill another commonsense, bipartisan measure passed by the Senate, which I was proud to cosponsor… to increase transparency around what the government does and does not know about unidentified aerial phenomena.”

According to reports, Rep. Mike Turner (R-Ohio), chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, and Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.), chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, are leading efforts to prevent any meaningful version of this provision from being added to the 2024 National Defense Authorization Act.

Members of Congress generally clamor for enhanced government oversight — a core function of the legislative branch — and transparency. So what could cause a small group of influential lawmakers to suddenly resist it?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] dudinax@programming.dev 42 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Gee, I wonder why chairs of the Intelligence and Armed Services committees would want to prevent the release of information about heretofore unrevealed aircraft?

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 33 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Until the DoD can account for the 2 trillion dollars they can't account for this audit, I have 0 interest in entertaining the obstruction of these officials.

That's American taxpayer money and we don't even get "classified aerospace research" as a line item

[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

They can account for it, but the government can't just make all of their defense spending public knowledge.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

One of the things the UAP investigations has found is that no, they cannot account for it. Even at the highest levels of clearance, some things are buried beneath mountains of different security designations, and it is at least as likely (and probably much more so) that there is embezzlement happening there than there is alien craft, etc.

[–] UsernameHere@lemmings.world 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

some things are buried beneath mountains of different security designations

You say this but then claim it’s embezzlement.

It’s much more likely that the Pentagon keeps this info guarded so it doesn’t end up in a bathroom in Mar-a-Lago.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

The Pentagon does not have the authority to withhold information from properly-vetted members of Congress - they have been denying access through various loopholes to anyone.

In fact, one of the things discovered this year is that several major defense contractors have had ongoing "projects" for decades in which each part of the project is so compartmentalized that, quite simply, no one can even begin to suggest what the project is actually doing. These are not uncommon right now in the more confidential areas of our government, but the strange thing is the utter impermeability of them.

There are significant amounts of Senators and House members, of both sides, who suspect an embezzlement operation basically funneling cash chasing projects that will never materialize as anything

The more you dig into this the crazier it gets. I'm not even talking about the actual UAPs, just potentially of billions of embezzled funds with nothing to show for it and nothing that will ever come of it

I believe citizens absolutely have a right to know if this kind of theft is happening.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

The more you dig into it after a short few minutes you realize you don't know what they say in closed sessions.

[–] loxo@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They still don't account for it, they just get free money from US tax payers. The DoD is getting free hand outs.

[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They don't publicly account for it. That's different than not accounting for it at all.

I'm 100% in favor of funneling much of the defense budget into social programs like universal healthcare and free college, but I also know that it's silly to expect the Pentagon and DoD to release spending details on top secret defense projects.

[–] HM05_Me@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They don't even account for it within the government. They have failed their 6th consecutive audit. The issue isn't that the public doesn't know where the funds are going, it's that not even Congress knows how the money is being used.

[–] UsernameHere@lemmings.world -3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Congress can’t be trusted anymore than Trump when it comes to national security secrets.

[–] HM05_Me@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Are you suggesting that the DoD should operate with no oversight and be allowed to fail their audits every year? I understand a breakdown in trust with politicians, but there needs to be some accountability.

[–] YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Drone technology is insane right now and the United States fields a massive arsenal of hypersonic highly maneuverable spy drones. It's easier to claim it is space aliens than explain just how far out in front the CIA drones are.

[–] TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's what I'm guessing.

UFOs are a convenient method of distraction for the military and the flying killbots they've invented.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago

They've used this playbook before:

By August 1988, Bennewitz was accusing his wife of being in control of the extraterrestrials. After attempting to barricade himself in his home using sandbags, his family admitted him to the mental health unit of Presbyterian Anna Kaseman Hospital; He remained under observation there for one month.

On July 1, 1989, William Moore claimed that he tried to push Bennewitz into a mental breakdown by feeding him false information about aliens. This was corroborated by a declassified CIA document that claims Moore and another officer of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Richard Doty, are responsible for a disinformation campaign against Bennewitz.

[–] UndefinedIsNotAFunction@programming.dev 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)

The amendment makes a very clear distinction between things we create and things we don't and only deals with the latter. So, those projects would not be lumped into what gets released to the public. I'd sure like to know why our government has spent millions upon millions on these things if they don't exist. It's our tax dollars paying for it!

[–] Hegar@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I’d sure like to know why our government has spent millions upon millions on these things if they don’t exist.

To get a near-peer adversary to spend even more money on nonsense.

UFOs definitely don't exist. First time round we pretended otherwise to get the russians to waste time and money researching bunk.

This time round it's directed at the Chinese.

[–] Organichedgehog@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

UFOs definitely don't exist.

You mean "probably"

[–] Hegar@kbin.social -2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean we have definitely not been visited by aliens in spacecraft.

[–] Organichedgehog@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

You mean "probably"

[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

UFOs absolutely do exist, but they're definitely not from an alien species.

UFO just means there's a flying object that we don't know what it is. That Chinese spy balloon was a UFO at first.

[–] Organichedgehog@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

but they're definitely not from an alien species.

You mean "probably"

[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world -3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Nope. The chances of an alien civilization knowing we exist is infinitesimal.

[–] Organichedgehog@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

So we agree, UFO's are probably not extraterrestrials

[–] Hegar@kbin.social -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Sure, but when people say UFO they don't mean an unidentified flying object, they just mean a UFO.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Is this like how when I say LOL I didn't necessarily laugh out loud for real?

[–] dudinax@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The distinction will be harder to make in real life than in legislation.

[–] UndefinedIsNotAFunction@programming.dev 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

You're right! Which is why there's a prededentially appointed panel containing a national security official, foreign service official, sociologist, economist, a scientist or engineer, and professional historian to help make these determinations and whether the information is deemed safe to release. Many great minds to make the decision rather than a single individual.

Edit: Assuming Schumer's amendment passes that is.

[–] dudinax@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

You don't have to convince me, except if I were the military I wouldn't trust those guys.

[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I mean, it's generally a bad idea to make your defense R&D public knowledge.

[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Gotta be extraterrestrial activity despite the physical improbably and complete lack of evidence.

[–] HM05_Me@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

The amendment gives departments a 25 year window for releasing information and still allows for info to be withheld from the public over national security. The information would also reviewed by an appointed committee and wouldn't just be blindly released to the public.

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

If that's what these UAPs are, wouldn't they want people to know they have it as deterrent? These things have been observed for a very long time.

[–] dudinax@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

Because they might not be deterrents or they might not be ready yet. When the B-2 was first flown it was not admitted to by the gov. and it looked like a flying saucer. Once it was ready for use, the gov. admitted to it.