this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
209 points (68.8% liked)

Mildly Infuriating

35556 readers
1658 users here now

Home to all things "Mildly Infuriating" Not infuriating, not enraging. Mildly Infuriating. All posts should reflect that.

I want my day mildly ruined, not completely ruined. Please remember to refrain from reposting old content. If you post a post from reddit it is good practice to include a link and credit the OP. I'm not about stealing content!

It's just good to get something in this website for casual viewing whilst refreshing original content is added overtime.


Rules:

1. Be Respectful


Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.

Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.

...


2. No Illegal Content


Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.

That means: -No promoting violence/threats against any individuals

-No CSA content or Revenge Porn

-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)

...


3. No Spam


Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.

-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.

-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.

-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers

-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.

...


4. No Porn/ExplicitContent


-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.

-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.

...


5. No Enciting Harassment,Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts


-Do not Brigade other Communities

-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.

-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.

-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.

...


6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.


-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.

...


7. Content should match the theme of this community.


-Content should be Mildly infuriating.

-At this time we permit content that is infuriating until an infuriating community is made available.

...


8. Reposting of Reddit content is permitted, try to credit the OC.


-Please consider crediting the OC when reposting content. A name of the user or a link to the original post is sufficient.

...

...


Also check out:

Partnered Communities:

1.Lemmy Review

2.Lemmy Be Wholesome

3.Lemmy Shitpost

4.No Stupid Questions

5.You Should Know

6.Credible Defense


Reach out to LillianVS for inclusion on the sidebar.

All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

For context: The thread was about why people hate Hexbear and Lemmygrad instances

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The problems start before Stalin. I also don't know what you mean by capitulation or how the USSR worked less by it than capitalism.

As far as a system that everyone buys into out of their own free will, it's probably not possible. Even in a system that perfectly ensures equality for all people, a couple of assholes will not like the system because they want to dominate others. Even anarchy would require a mechanism to uphold anarchy through violence. The best we can do is to create a system where everyone is equal and it is most prudent to uphold it from a rational point of view.

[–] bastion@feddit.nl 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Indeed, Stalin's not the only failed communist/socialist, but at least he had some valid philosophy backing him (right until he glazed over individual rights).

It was somewhat of a tongue-in-cheek usage of the word 'capitulation'. But I meant it as roughly somewhere between coercion and choice, and leaning more towards choice than coercion does.

Equality for all won't work, structually or socially, except in some narrow (but critical) bands of focus. And anarchy has precisely the flaws you specify.

While 'perfect' equality and anarchy can't effectively exist, a society could be based around concepts of sovereignty. Not abandoning capitalism, but acknowledging the energy flow cash represents, and the need to use it both ethically and effectively. Not abandoning communal collectivity, but acknowledging that respect for sovereignty is the cornerstone to a solid collective.

The issues in any society are distributed throughout its members, and manifest in the psychological and emotional landscape of its people. The sad thing about this is that, as a societal structure hits it's limits, you see people exercising the principles of that society as fully as they can, and it still doesn't cut it. For capitalism, that's working endlessly, getting guilty for not working more/effectively enough, or getting all the things you were supposed to want and entering a general malaise because they're all meaningless.

But the thing is, top to bottom, people caught in the capitalist mindset are all looking for a good deal - and a 'good deal' is defined as one asymmetrically in my benefit. But there's no intuitive and natural, sustainable enjoyment of the results. It's like gambling once the urge has taken over someone, and they don't even pay attention to win or loss. Oh, sure, they like winning and don't like losing, but they're never going to take their winnings and go home, our really make back what they've lost. They're just going to continue.

Anyways - that same distributed nature is what the concept of sovereignty depends on. Capitalism is not something that needs to be fought - it works well with equitable exchange and prudent action. But the mentality that it trends towards must be fought. The urges to follow the advertisement, to take the simplistic way out, and to choose the cheaper (in all senses of the word) option. To trick others into getting the worse end of the deal, or to just be 'good hearted' and look the other way while you get screwed.

With sovereignty, first and foremost, the issues in the world that you care to change are your own to change. They may not be your fault, but they are your situation and cultural background. They are the hand you are dealt. They are your responsibility. And the first place to change them is within yourself - to recognize how you are connected to those things, and how and why what you do results in or feeds those things - and to make change in your own life, first and foremost, before you make claims on what others should do. Enforcement action against others is limited to circumstances where sovereignty has been (or is being) violated.

Until this mentality is prevalent enough to represent fundamental cultural change, it is irrelevant what government is chosen, other than to pragmatically choose what is already in place (or whatever works). Once this mentality is prevalent enough to represent fundamental cultural change, it is irrelevant what government is chosen, because the way out it is used will be effective enough and just enough - and it will be worked towards the ends of sovereignty, both individual and collective.

[–] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Having a mentality of sovereignty won't change much, if only because it doesn't fix many of the inherent problems with a global human society. A big downside to capitalism and free markets are mortal limitations. We can't predict the future or understand the full effects of our actions. We estimate based what information we have, but we can often be wrong even if we have good intentions. The externalities of our actions are basically impossible to calculate, and even when we discover them, we possess the ability to suspend our empathy and ignore potential harms.

I'm also not a fan of the assumption that we can't tell others what to do until we put our own lives in order. Sometimes getting others to do things is essential to changing your own life and improving your own situation. On a personal level, you can set boundaries with toxic people in your life or convince others to leave you alone. On a large scale, you can overthrow an oppressive system or change laws that prevent you from living well. Telling others what they should do is not mutually exclusive to making changes in your own life.

Sovereignty is great and all, but even if widely respected by most, some will not, and those that do must step in to protect it. The way I view it, laws don't exist for ethically behaving people, they exist because there will always be unethical people, and there's no way to ensure that any ethical person will always be ethical.

The fundamental reality is that someone who wants to do good can participate in an evil system. Unregulated global capitalism uses child slaves and keeps people in poverty, all while pumping substances into the environment that harm everyone. You might respect the sovereignty of everyone you meet, but anything you buy can be made by manufacturers who don't respect the sovereignty of people you'll never meet.

Capitalism is too big for its problems to be solved by individual behaviors without changing our current system. We must change it to actually make a system that respect everyone's anything, be it sovereignty, human rights, or the ability to live.

[–] bastion@feddit.nl 1 points 1 year ago

Not too big. You just have to have effective individual behaviors. They spread, because they work. Capitalism is currently a leading way of life because it is effective both for individuals and for collectives, at least from a raw, short-term power standpoint.

But that standpoint is a valid and important one. There's no need to get rid of capitalism, there's a need to adopt better ideologies, live by them, and gain by them. ..which is what I do.

The point of sovereignty isn't 'you can't stop other people from being bad.' It's that that kind of thinking (though necessary in a pinch) keeps you from addressing the ways you're relinquishing power to the existing system on an ongoing basis.

In the end, though, I'm just making conversation, and we'll both live as we wish. In some senses, we all live by sovereignty anyways. It's just more effective when you realize it.