Just once I'd like a post where everyone is chill and positive about stuff instead of focusing on negative
Edit: I dunno why I expect people to ever be capable of being positive anymore. Dunno why I bother.
this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023
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Hard disagree, new star trek has had years to "settle in" and has shown almost no signs of improving on the things that make it poor quality - namely low effort pandering writing and a lack of respect for its audience. Alex Kurtzman and the executives are the problem, and they're not going anywhere soon.
I miss how campy it used to be. I feel they finally nailed it with Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds, but Disco and Picard were rough. Picard S3 was a little more tolerable though.
Camp is an intentionally over-the-top stylistic choice, it's a specific well defined style. It doesn't just mean "silly" or "cheesy". Star Trek isn't camp.
Sorry to be that guy but it's one of my pet peeves.
Plenty of Trek camp was/is very much self-aware and intentional.
[citation needed]
SNW S1e8 and trouble with tribbles. Just off the top of my head.
Also, many holodeck eps and the ones where everyone is horny.
I did enjoy Picard S3, but that notably didn't involve Kurtzman.
It 100% did involve Kurtzman. People out here just making up whatever nonsense fits their narrative. Clown shit.
Oh, bless you.
Being old enough to have Voyager and especially DS9 be my "nuTrek" and also never having let it go I can feel your nerdrage as a warm, fuzzy winter fire.
Can I interest you in how DS9's focus on greed, war and moral compromise is a betrayal of the concepts behind Star Trek and if they wanted to make Babylon 5 they should have just made Babylon 5?
I'm old enough for that too. I saw and enjoyed both DS9 and Babylon 5 when they came out! There are definitely issues with DS9, but it never treated the audience as stupid or took its material anything other than seriously. It was ambitious and very well written, especially the Cardassian characters.
I get particularly frustrated at the "teen humour" focus of the new stuff, it's just not written with me in mind and that's fair enough but I don't think we should be comparing it to the old stuff and arguing it's the same level of quality because that's not accurate.
I like that you like DS9. Good for you. It's there for you and that's fine.
But it's a weird show that is a fundamental contestation to what makes Star Trek appealing and pretends it isn't.
It's fine. All of Trek is fine. But if you ask me if I'd rather watch Discovery, I'd watch Discovery any day. Which, again, is fine, because both of those exist and are at the very least decent.
I'm not sure how much "teen humor" there is in modern Trek, though. I mean, there's Lower Decks, but that's the point of Lower Decks and I kinda warmed up to it over time. Ditto for Prodigy.
If anything Picard was overly self-serious, and one could argue the same of Discovery, at least during the first season. I kinda see it in SNW, and I do think Season 2 tries to do too much too soon, but whatever, that show has a specific niche and that's where it lives.
Man, can I just stop to say that I just rattled off five different Star Trek shows, all of them different and all of them at least decent? What a time to be into this particular series.
All the exact same arguments that were made against TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT.
But way to look at the description of my post and say "Nah, positivity? Fuck that."
Thanks for that.
You can reasonably disagree with a critical response to a TV show without it being a personal attack on your positivity or that of your post. What are you looking for here? An echo chamber makes for a boring discussion board.
I think it's fair enough to expect writers to understand and respect the media they're working with, and I'd argue that the writing in all those previous shows was leagues more intelligent and considered than the stuff on Kurtzman shows. I get very frustrated at how what was a show about professional and considered officers dealing with clever sci fi scenarios is turned into an action slog "fuck yeah science" show. It's not smart or interesting like that.
EDIT: noticed your post above about the difficulties you're going through. We can disagree about a telly show and still respect each other, I don't think discussion spaces like this might be healthy if you're struggling with positivity. It's totally okay to like the new trek shows and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be positive.
Here's a controversial thought: The worst Trek is at the absolute worst kinda decent, and it only goes up from there.
My Trek power rankings don't line up with most (Discovery is pretty great, DS9 is kind of annoying, all the Kelvin Treks are fun and the first one is pretty great), but even the parts I don't like I can watch and be chill about it.
Picard is bordering that line, honestly, but I can't be actively mad at Patrick Stewart and I actually would have watched a cheaper, longer show about the La Sirena crew without the TNG baggage.