this post was submitted on 03 May 2022
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Cryptobros gonna cryptobro

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[–] rysiek@szmer.info 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Your whataboutism is becoming tedious. A thing can be bad even if it's alternative is not entirely great. I can hate apples, and hate oranges all the same.

[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Blah Blah whataboutism if you can keep spamming bullshit about some nut buying expensive jpgs voluntarily I can spam all the negative things about tradfi until now you’ve still given no response on how a person with their currency being devalued by a central bank and their property expropriated could possibly get any legal recourse or what real alternative you could give them instead of crypto or any criticism of the projects that I told you that I support

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Oh, and by the way, for the Suisse Secrets you might want the actual investigation site, linked from the press release you linked to: https://www.occrp.org/en/suisse-secrets/

I used to work for OCCRP, so thanks for bringing back good memories! 😍

You might want to read up on some more of their investigations, this tag is particularly interesting perhaps: https://www.occrp.org/en/component/tags/tag/cryptocurrencies

[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

NATIONAL CURRENCY IS BAD BECAUSE CRIMINALS ARE USING IT

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Wait I thought you were saying banks are bad because criminals are using them?

Can't have it both ways, my friend. Either misuse of the traditional financial system is a good argument against it (and thus misuse of cryptocurrencies is an argument against them), or not. 🤔

[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Didn’t I already tell you that all banks aren’t bad and that it would be stupid of me to smear all of them like that which is why I’m constantly pointing out the stupidity of your logic using silly statements like above, when have I ever said that I have a problem with people choosing to use banks since I believe in individual responsibility and the both of them have disadvantages that are clearly communicated to users and it’s up to you to make the decision

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 3 points 2 years ago

Cool, cool.

But I am merely clearly communicating the disadvantages of cryptocurrencies/NFTs/web3 and other blockchain-based boondoggles. And that seems to frustrate you to a point of calling people names and using all-caps, for some reason. 🤔

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I never said you can't. I only said it's getting tedious. But hey, whatever floats your boat! 🤷‍♀️

[–] Catradora_Stalinism@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

whataboutism? what you talking about?

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Explanation link was provided in my comment. Saying "but banks are also bad" doesn't change the fact that cryptocurrency/NFT/web3 scene is rife with scams.

[–] Catradora_Stalinism@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ah, I see. Idk why they saying that, why defend crypto/NFTs? They are extremely predatory, and I can tell that from just looking in from the outside. have a nice day

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Saying "apples are horrible" does not defend oranges. Two things can be bad at the same time. This is not a competition.

[–] Catradora_Stalinism@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

very true! The dude also has quite the shit comment history, what a load of garbage.

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 2 points 2 years ago

There is some entertainment value to this, though. Does brighten the day, in a weird way. 😄

[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Go fuck yourself you dumb communist removed

[–] Catradora_Stalinism@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (16 children)
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[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

But he didn't really say that banks are bad, or that the cryptocurrency/NFT/web3 scene isn't rife with scams.

Scams also existing in fiat currency (his point) doesn't make fiat bad, in the same way as cryptocurrency/NFT/web3 having good uses doesn't mean that it cannot also be "rife with scams".

Are hammers bad because people can use them to smash skulls? imho what we need is measures to prevent, block, minimize or discourage that kind of behavior, not necessarily ban hammers.

Personally, I think the open source and p2p nature of blockchain technology can be a better way to introduce measures of control and protection in a way that is fairer and more transparent than using obscure private ledgers on the hands of more central authorities managed by humans that we have to trust..

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

But he didn’t really say that banks are bad, or that the cryptocurrency/NFT/web3 scene isn’t rife with scams.

He dropped a bunch of links with zero context, initially. Interpretation was left to the reader.

Are hammers bad because people can use them to smash skulls? imho what we need is measures to prevent, block, minimize or discourage that kind of behavior, not necessarily ban hammers.

No. But how a tool is designed influences heavily what it's good for and how it's used. A war hammer and a nail hammer are different hammers, useful for different things. One is way more useful for killing people. The other can also be used that way, but not nearly as effectively.

Same with the crypto scene. Most of the tools there are designed in such a way that they promote the power structures they claim to work against. Just look at secondary centralization of Bitcoin and Ethereum mining, how centralized wealth is in BTC and other cryptocurrencies. The scams there also don't come from nowhere and it is very telling that to deal with some of them (the Ethereum DAO thing I mentioned time and again, for example) the core promises of these very tools had to be broken (hard fork, blacklisted wallets, etc).

Just to be very clear, I am not claiming that these tools had been designed this way on purpose. Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. But that's what their design lends itself very well to.

Personally, I think the open source and p2p nature of blockchain technology can be a better way to introduce measures of control and protection in a way that is fairer and more transparent than using obscure private ledgers on the hands of more central authorities managed by humans that we have to trust…

Sure, and there are interesting projects in this scene. Nano Coin is one of them. Why? Because it explicitly acknowledges and tries to address the problems with almost all other cryptocurrency-ish projects out there.

And this is the conversation we should have had in this thread. But when somebody just knee-jerks, foams at their mouth, and keeps calling people names because they can't get over the fact that maybe their pet tech might have some problems that need to be recognized and addressed, it's hard to have such a conversation. One can either ignore such a person, or extract some entertainment value from their aggro. 😜

Yeah, I never said I'm a nice person.

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[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Post an alternative if you can trash something it must mean you know of something better

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I already linked you to a book that points towards some alternatives, but you refused to consider it. 🤷‍♀️

[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What alternative does the book suggest? All the reviews only note them suggesting debt relief for the world’s poorest countries and that we’re all imperfect communists because we act out of altruism sometimes and how that proves communism works

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I guess you'll have to read the book to find out. Really not inclined to do a book review for someone who's throwing f-bombs at people he disagrees with.

But here's a hint: perhaps the problem is not the specific technical implementation of a financial system, but the power structures that financial system promotes and enshrines.

[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Yeah so anarchist communes but don’t we have enough information on preindustrial societies that have existed/that still exist to show that they aren’t as egalitarian as claimed and they aren’t free as of violence either to know that’s completely stupid and violence is in the nature of man and not any particular system which is why no matter how free the market is , people will still be exploited

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Wow, you either read books very fast and understand very little from them, or you just pull crap out of your arse without even bothering at all to dive into the source material.

I wonder which one is it. 🤔

[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The synopsis and reviews of the source material just talk about it exploring the history of money and giving evidence to point out to it’s origin as credit. All reviews of the book whether good/bad mention the end of the book recommending debt relief and it’s talks about everyday communism in none are any concrete alternatives mentioned. So regarding your critique of capitalism and the author’s background as an anarchist it serves to reason that any alternative system to capitalism that would be promoted must be anarchism so what pray tell did I pull out of my arse even jacobin doesn’t really find it that enlightening https://www.jacobinmag.com/2012/08/debt-the-first-500-pages/

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I guess we'll never know until you read the book. 😄

But here's another hint: perhaps debt relief can be implemented without an "anarchism". You might also want to explore the author's definition of "everyday communism", and how it doesn't have much to do with a communist state.

But I am not going to hold my breath here.

[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Are you an imbecile if you suggest a book by an anarchist and then complain about capitalism and talk about the need for it to be replaced any sensible person would conclude that you're advocating for the replacement of capitalism with anarchism and not just debt relief, further more we already do debt relief for poor countries and as you can plainly see it does nothing for them as the corrupt politicians will just continue to loot the country's assets and rack up the nation's debt for it to be considered for relief yet again leaving the citizens to bear the cost as nation states unlike individuals/companies will always have even one willing lender meaning this cycle of misery could possibly continue till the end of time with their purchasing power constantly being eroded and the possibly that at anytime their assets stored at the bank could be expropriated by the government and the author's definition of everyday communism as I already explained is literally just doing nice thing for other people again I assumed that you were an individual with a working brain who would realize that there has never been a society in the history of mankind that has operated on pure altruism and that charity alone cannot solve the issue of global poverty

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Are you an imbecile

Are you ever able to make an argument without calling people names?

if you suggest a book by an anarchist and then complain about capitalism and talk about the need for it to be replaced any sensible person would conclude that you’re advocating for the replacement of capitalism with anarchism and not just debt relief

And if you're defending cryptobro scams any sensible person would conclude you're okay with them. How has that worked out for you so far?

there has never been a society in the history of mankind that has operated on pure altruism and that charity alone cannot solve the issue of global poverty

Nobody ever said anything about pure altruism, nor charity. Debt relief is not charity.

I also really like how you make a point about the "politicians" doing the looting literally in a thread started by an article on how cryptobros loot poeple that had just been looted by other cryptobros. I guess if the looting is a private enterprise, it's fine and dandy? 🙄

But please do go on, I enjoy reading your hot takes about what's in a book you have not read, and what I think that I have not said!

[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

And if you’re defending cryptobro scams any sensible person would conclude you’re okay with them. How has that worked out for you so far?

Anyone with a brain in their head can see that I'm not defending scams but the right of individuals to make choices based on the information given to them and bear the responsibilities for those choices.

Nobody ever said anything about pure altruism, nor charity. Debt relief is not charity.I also really like how you make a point about the “politicians” doing the looting literally in a thread started by an article on how cryptobros loot poeple that had just been looted by other cryptobros. I guess if the looting is a private enterprise, it’s fine and dandy? 🙄 But please do go on, I enjoy reading your hot takes about what’s in a book you have not read, and what I think that I have not said!

Charity is generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering so of course debt relief is charity.The cryptobros aren't forced to use those defi applications you removed and are able to read the source code of the application before using it and decide whether or not to use it while the citizens of third world countries have no choice in what countries they're born in and are largely unable to move to other countries safely without help nor did they elect the politicians in power on a platform of inflating their currency again I ask how the fuck does everyday communism/debit relief stop central banks from devaluating currencies and governments from expropriating property of their citizens

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 3 points 2 years ago (8 children)

Charity is generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering so of course debt relief is charity.

That's like saying "tax deductions are charity". Which is to say, untrue. Charity is personal, debt forgiveness is public policy.

The cryptobros (...) are able to read the source code of the application before using it and decide whether or not to use it

That is demonstrably untrue. The source code is accessible, sure, but ability to read it and reason about it is a whole different thing. And as smart contract bugs and all other sorts of problems with code related to "defi" show, that ability is not really doing them much good.

And before you go on a tangent about how "open source is important", I've been doing FLOSS activism for way over a decade now.

the citizens of third world countries have no choice in what countries they’re born in

Dunno, man, can't remember being asked where I want to be born in either, even though I come from the so-called "Western World". 🤷

and are largely unable to move to other countries safely without help

And crypto helps here... how exactly?

I ask how the fuck does everyday communism/debit relief stop central banks from devaluating currencies and governments from expropriating property of their citizens

Again, I guess we'll never know!

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[–] Catradora_Stalinism@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

everyday communism/debit relief stop central banks from devaluating currencies and governments from expropriating property of their citizens

First of all BANKS DO NOT EXIST UNDER COMMUNISM

[–] overflow64@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago

First of all NO ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT A HYPOTHETICAL COMMUNIST SOCIETY