Phil doing what Don couldn't
this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2023
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Why even sell a physical box if it has absolutely no benefit over a digital download? I wonder if it's at all driven by desire to trick people who want a physical disk copy (ie, a copy that can be resold or traded)?
Given that people generally expect physical copies to have a disk (at least for console games), it feels like false advertising.
Having a product on a shelf is a form of marketing. It's why big releases get a full wall at GameStop. They cna keep a box in the back, but the publisher has paid for all of that shelf space, and they've paid for it because it makes it look like a big deal to people who are just wandering in looking for a gift, or for their next thing to play between Fifa or Madden releases.
I have no idea why you're being downvoted; this is literally what those walls full of game boxes were meant for (even back when they actually had shit in 'em).
No benefit? I only buy physical (when possible), because then the game is mine. You dont own digital only games, you just license them. I can give back, resell or lend my games and I get a feeling of ownership. I hate the direction the games industry is going.
EULAs say otherwise even in that case.
They don't. They clarify that owning a copy of the game does not confer copyright ownership, and they outline public performance rights, but it's ownership over a physical object in the same way owning a lamp is, or perhaps more appropriately, the way in which owning a book is.
If you say that you "own a copy of Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell," no one crawls out of the work to argue IP and copyright law. Everyone understands what is meant.
This is no different.
Given the wording of some EULAs that's debatable. Not that those clauses would be enforceable if anyone actually tried, mind you.
It's a physical box that contains a download code. There's no game inside. No disc, no cartridge, nothing that actually holds the product.
You're not reselling that.
Thats exactly what bugs me.
Yes, but understand the exchange you're having:
"Why sell a physical box if it contains no game? There's no benefit to buying it!"
"No benefit? Buying physical means I own it!"
Does it not seem like you're ignoring the actual issue being discussed?
No, they're saying that what is being sold here is being falsely advertized as a physical copy of the game when it is not.
"Why sell a physical box if it contains no game?" Is about this "physical edition" that isn't.
"Buying physical means I own it" is about actual physical editions that aren't lies.
You've missed the point. The point was not that it was a fake physical box (we all get that), but rather why sell a fake physical box.
Maybe I misunderstood your point, but I think the original comment was saying they like buying physical, transferable copies of games (ie. disks) because of the points they mentioned. The Starfield physical copy is pointless because you're not getting a transferable copy, you'll just get a single use code (which is the same as buying digital). The only reason people would want the Starfield physical copy is to have an item on their shelf.
But physical disks now won't let you play unless you download 500GB worth of "updates"
I miss old physical games where you had the disk and that's it
That's still the half the case on Switch. You can put the cart in and play without installing the game to system storage, but how big the patches are and how necessary they are varies.
A lot of the third-party compilations for Switch include one game and allow you to download the rest (Assassin’s Creed is one).
On the plus side, Nintendo is good about releasing revision cartridges with updates. I think that new copies of Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey are fully patched at this point.
What? No, that's wrong. You only ever purchase a license to play the game. The only thing you own is the package and the disc.
Also, you can just copy the files of the digital download.
You only ever own a license and possibly a medium, not the game. From the perspective of the law there is very little difference. Now, the terms of use of a particular DRM platform, this is a different matter.
I think at least part of it is to let people buy with cash or store credit though I do wish they made it more like a branded gift card or something because that would be less waste
That would be preferable.
Those already exist, they just want the presence a plastic box has on the shelves
Nintendo does exactly this with digital Switch games, so it's definitely possible for Starfield too
Honestly I'm not very bothered. I struggle to see this as false advertising when they're declaring on public forums that physical copies will not include a disc, and it's quite likely that those physical copies will also state on them that it includes a code and not a disc.
Given our increasing environmental concerns the idea that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of discs are not going to be produced for this is a good thing, I think. I imagine the only reason a physical version exists at all is to ensure the game has a presence in physical stores, so large advertisements can catch people's eye, so stores can do related promotions. In essence, all those empty boxes will be produced purely for advertising purposes, otherwise I imagine they would scrap physical copies all together to save the related production, transportation, and logistics costs.
It's probably driven by a desire to keep retail partners happy with stocked store shelves.
Because brick and mortar retail isn't entirely dead. Impulse buys, Christmas gifts, etc etc etc etc. All the reasons to have a product for sale in a store. The product was never the CD or DVD or floppy disks, and gamers who make a fuss about it are just crotchety for the sake of it. There's no reason to print physical media. I haven't even owned an optical drive in my pc for well over a decade. Still bought some "physical copies" of games that were just codes. I'm not upset.
You're old grandpa, go back inside and stop yelling at The Cloud.
Ffs, a shockingly large portion of the U.S. still has terrible internet. People buy physical copies so they don't have to download over several days and exceed their data caps.
Others enjoy physical copies for the collectible aspect, which a box alone does not suffice for at all.
Selling a box that looks like it contains a physical copy, and calling it a physical copy, when it demonstrably isn't is just deceptive advertizing. If they just want to sell a digital copy in stores, it should be a card with a code on it and marked as a digital only copy.
You're entitled to not care about the physical copues yourself, but calling everyone who does care "crotchety for the sake of it" is just nonsensical and shitty.
You have a problem with packaging. The product is the software. Software. Soft. Media is irrelevant. You may as well be insisting games be provided on floppy disks for your own contentedness.
It isn't false advertising. You're just self-entitled and want companies to cater to you specifically and not the masses. Gamers are really the most entitled group of folks on the planet. You may as well demand Netflix provide VHS copies of every new show they make. Same stupid argument. If you don't like your arguments being called stupid, don't publicize your stupid arguments.
chill a bit, please. other people are disagreeing here without saying things like "You’re old grandpa, go back inside and stop yelling at The Cloud." or making charges like "You’re just self-entitled", so you shouldn't need to either at the people you disagree with.
I'm calm as shit man. Relaxing on a Sunday. It's just that I'm not wrong. He is self-entitled. He wants game developers to spend their money publishing DVDs for the one-off collectors -- nevermind the environment, nevermind that they're going to be downloading day 1 updates the size of the game anyway, nevermind all of the ridiculous arguments about "oh poor me, they won't let me easily copy and distribute their product to my friends". Nope -- "I'm a collector, and game developers are awful people for not giving me my CD and this should be illegal and society should make laws to satisfy my collector quirk."
Are you fucking for real. Go back and read this fuckin' thread, dude, that's what people are fucking saying. "Make laws against this".
That's self-entitlement defined. It's not a charge, it's an observation made by an adult living in a society of law regarding another publicly made comment. I offered scrutiny from the apparently rare perspective of being a grown up.
And this is very much a childish argument. Like whining your dinner at the restaurant didn't come in a colorful box with a toy inside, or that the book you have to read has no pictures in it. They're not even complaining about the product, they're complaining about the package it's delivered in. Literally the same as saying "that meal is gonna suck because it didn't come in a McDonalds box". Six year olds think like that.
Gamers are the most entitled group of brats on the planet and this is just one tiny example it. Literally demanding useless plastic trash, not even a toy or anything you look at - no, just a useless blu-ray disc that the hardware all but ignores anyway.
And again - I'm calm as shit. Don't make the mistake of thinking a few paragraphs means I'm angry. That's just being lazy, you can read. Hell, you can even read criticism. And if you can't, get the hell off social media.
"i am very chill" you then proceed to write what is basically a screed doubling down--this isn't ban worthy but it is a bit silly, please do a little bit of self-reflection here about how this comes off right now
It's pretty fucking immature (and gaslighty) to respond to valid criticism with "chill out bro".
Go ahead and ban me, you don't need to make passive-aggressive threats. You can just power-trip away. Don't forget to leave a comment that reads "user was banned" so everyone knows how calm and collected you are with your ban hammer.
And I'll say it again. *Deep breath, peaceful mind, thoughtful spirit*: That user is an entitled child who made a stupid argument.
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but that's not what gaslighting is and it's fairly disrespectful to those who have actually experienced that kind of abuse to just throw the term around because someone disagreed with you and asked you to calm down.
When someone says a thing and you deliberately interpret anger where there was none (especially after they've said it, "I'm not angry") and insist they "calm down" rather than addressing any valid criticism or complaint they actually bring up, that's quite gaslighty. It's intentionally presenting a false reality and insisting I adhere to it "or he's just wild, he won't calm down".
Or "he's just a troll not worthy of consideration" as you put it. Which is definitively dehumanizing as well, but you don't see me whining about it. It is ironic though. Me calling childish arguments childish, whoa! You calling someone a troll, that's perfectly reasonable. You calm down.
It's not strictly the same as gaslighting but that's why I said "gaslighty". But go off about the hypothetical strangers I belittled, please, whatever gets you going down there.
Hey bud you're at like a 130%, I'mma need you to drop down to like a 15% please
You're absolutely right. All these people shouting about "back in my day we owned games!" are forgetting that games have to be manufactured. Is all that plastic and pollution worth having a plastic rectangle with a different plastic circle in it? At the end of the day once you've played the game that's it, it's yours. Your experience is unique and it can't be taken away, don't cling to manufactured waste when what you cherish are the memories.
Honestly if you're making the environmental argument then you also have to factor in all the electricity, rare earth metals, fossil fuels etc. used to serve games over the internet - data centres aren't exactly eco-friendly places, and running a worldwide network of fibre optic / copper cables takes a fair chunk of resources.
Electricity can be generated sustainably. Rare earth metals can be recycled. We are working on alternatives to fossil fuels. Environmental issues aren't a zero sum game. You don't "Lose" just because something else also pollutes. It's an issue that is worked on systematically. Could it be a lot faster? Yes of course. But we work with what we have.
Data centers are also multi-use. You don't build a data center just to house your game. You pay for the space in one that already exists. A company can choose to make software available on a platform that is open to a large portion of the world, or it can spend cash and resources shipping boxes of plastic all over the world. The pollution and waste generated by shipping something across an ocean massive. Do you really want to put all that into the air so you can have the plastic circle?