That doesn't fully explain it though. What's wrong or dangerous about someone being both male and female, switch between the two, or be neither. I explain the lie of sex=gender and, "adult human female," in another comment, but why do they care about this being the case? Some people claim it threatens religious order, but there aren't universal religious principles. Others claim trans people are directly dangerous, but never have proof. Many people insist that it disrupts the natural order, usually failing to explain why the natural order is good, how the status quo is natural, and how exactly trans people being accepted is worse than forcing them into the closet.

The most honest reason is that it clashes with their beliefs about what should be the case and makes them unhappy. They don't have a good argument, but at least they're honest.

Functionally, trans acceptance is rejected by conservatives because it weakens patriarchal cis-heteronormative power structures that personally provides them with something. For those directly empowered by the hierarchy, the selfish benefits are obvious, but it provides other benefits that get some of the disadvantaged on board. It provides clear order and direction, telling people what to do with their life and how they can be successful at it. Most people prefer clear goals and obvious rules, things that more enlightened worldviews don't provide. Live a happy and flourishing life? The fuck does that mean?

There are other appeals to being old fashion, but those are some of the big ones.

[–] cricket98@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

What’s wrong or dangerous about someone being both male and female

This is not relevant. You also can't switch from male to female. It's not physically possible. I'm not religious either. I think that a male can be as feminine as they want, play whatever role they want, etc... but nothing they do will make them female in my eyes. It goes against the definition of the word.

Functionally, trans acceptance is rejected by conservatives because it weakens patriarchal cis-heteronormative power structures that personally provides them with something. For those directly empowered by the hierarchy, the selfish benefits are obvious, but it provides other benefits that get some of the disadvantaged on board. It provides clear order and direction, telling people what to do with their life and how they can be successful at it. Most people prefer clear goals and obvious rules, things that more enlightened worldviews don’t provide. Live a happy and flourishing life? The fuck does that me

This reads like cultish woo woo.

You can be as gender non conforming as you want, I will have no problem with it. But don't expect me to believe that you are the sex that you are not. I won't call anyone out for it if they claim otherwise but they can't change how I think deep down.

Hope this helps give some perspective.

[–] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It does, but not in a flattering way. You default to equating sex and gender because thinking about constructs is hard, instead asserting that they are exactly the same thing. I don't expect everyone to need that level of understanding. However, this doesn't mean I need to value your view. A person who hasn't learned to do multiplication doesn't need to be listened to when they claim 8x8 can't be 64.

Most younger trans people consider themselves transGENDER, not transSEXUAL. Most trans women don't focus on changing their sex to female, as that distinction doesn't most of the time. Someone's gender determines if they are female in most scenarios. Some people can pass as male and female through specific presentation, being seen as either gender by themselves and everyone else.

My comment about, "a happy and flourishing life," was pointing out how philosophers have known for thousands of years that most people don't question things, making fun of people that do. The specific reference is to the concept in ancient Greece of Eudaimonia, a term slightly different from happiness that philosophers like Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle thought of as the thing everyone should strive for. Of course, Socrates was executed because Athenians got tired of him poking holes in their beliefs. People don't want to think critically, and trying to question common assumptions gets dismissed as "cultish woo woo."

If there is nothing wrong or dangerous about the modern view of gender, why should we cling to the old view instead? The new view has fewer contradictions than the old view while letting trans and cis people alike live better lives. Forcing the old view onto trans people can be lethal, and strict gender divisions limit life for both men and women. It forces women to be subservient to men, while men are told to be disposable machines without feelings. The old norms are a prison for everyone, while the modern view encourages everyone to live their own life.

[–] TheFonz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Well said. There has to be a way to bridge this conversation but somehow it seems to make people really uncomfortable, which is understandable. I just wish people would start with questions instead of taking the world for granted.