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I don't see a problem here. I trust their numbers. They have released lists with all the people killed by Israel before and parts of those lists were confirmed by relatives living abroad. "Hamas-run X,Y,Z" is just a cheap way of trying to delegitimize palestinian deaths.
Like the 500 dead in the self inflicted hospital parking lot? Come on.
Hamas is a motivated and non-credible source for details.
Hamas has launched over 35 THOUSAND rockets over the years, which has barely killed 69 people, yet somehow now all of the sudden such a rocket fails and lands on a hospital and HUNDREDS die? Sure, so be it, but why would I even believe the IDF on this one? They haven't even provided any kind of proof. They provided a video which many organizations have debunked as being completely unrelated to the hospital rocket. Hell, even the New York Times debunked that video, and they're definitely west aligned.
That’s the point- 500 people didn’t die, it’s a made up number to grab headlines.
How many innocent Palestinians do you think have died since the 7th of October in general?
Who knows? I sure don’t. But I don’t believe 500 people died in a parking lot and I don’t take numbers from a motivated party at face value.
I sure hope the Hamas, IDF and the US fall under your "motivated party" definition too.
Y’all are bonkers if you equivocate the US and hamas. Legit they kidnapped, raped, murdered, than paraded the dead body of a young woman through the streets. This is the same group y’all go to for info?? Nuts man….
Do you have any idea about the US's history? Did you forget their lie about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to invade them, and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians? This is just one lie we're talking about.
The US has committed several war crimes, and killed millions of innocent civilians, they have killed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than Hamas killed and will ever kill.
A nice quote from the FUCKING CHARTER of Hamas “ The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! “
The organization is designed around genocide. You play with the idea that everyone is equally bad- that because the U.S. has done terrible things then all terrible things are equal. But Hamas was founded with the goal of eliminating a population. It’s not a fucking resistance movement fighting for survival- it’s a terrorist organization intended to wipe out another population.
How you equivocate the two is beyond me. If the Declaration of Independence had a line describing the death of Mexico or Canada then sure. But only one group has specifically called for the elimination of the a population- and that’s Hamas of the Jews.
1- Israel has been killing Palestinians and stealing their lands decades before Hamas was even a thing.
2- Yes, the US is much much much worse than Hamas since they invaded several countries and killed millions of innocent civilians, they're even the only country to ever nuke another country, so yeah, the US is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse than any other entity on Earth, it's probably a tie with Israel too.
Your response is nothing but theatrics and exaggeration. The US worse than North Korea, where no free will or choice exists? Or how about china, with ongoing Uyghur concentration camps? Or nazi Germany and the holocaust?
This is not to say the US is blameless- it’s to say that there are degrees of evil- and founding your organization on the death of someone else puts you at bottom of the barrel, by default.
How many innocent civilians has North Korea killed compared to the US? How many countries have they invaded?
I agree, and since the US was built on annihilating native Americans and stealing their lands, they are at the bottom of the barrel. Glad we finally agreed on that.
And the IDF and the US have lied countless times before. I'm not american, nor israeli, nor an arab. I don't need to pick a side for info here. All three (US, IDF, Hamas) have lied countless times before. Anyway, last time I checked the US has caused hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths by using bullshit reasons such as "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION", yet you tell me I should trust them more than some terrorists that killed 1000 times less people. I don't trust any of y'all.
If you're american, I want you to know that your country shouldn't be trusted at all with any kind of information. Your regime has caused countless deaths around the world. It has helped fascist dictators rise to power. Dictators that ended up killing hundreds of thousands of innocents. You don't have to take this from me. Take it from your very own government. All of this is declassified information. https://web.archive.org/web/20090911173014/http://foia.state.gov/Reports/ChurchReport.asp
So again, get off your high horse here. Hamas is a shit terrorist organization, I won't deny that. But I sure as hell am not dumb enough to believe your government on absolutely anything. Nor the IDF which has killed countless innocents before October 7th alone.
Do you think it's thousands of innocent women and children, or less?
How to be correct while being wrong folks...
It is a made up number, by western media not Hamas.
Hamas never made that claim.
It was a doctor being interviewed by al-jazeera. Even then it was a mis-translation of what he said that western media just ran with and never fact checked.
Please stop spreading misinformation to serve as a way to delegitimize one side.
There are plenty of REAL facts you can use.
On the night of the explosion, the Hamas-run Gazan health ministry put the toll at 500 or more dead, which it later changed to “hundreds.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-explained.html#:~:text=Hamas%2C%20which%20controls%20Gaza%2C%20blamed,shown%20by%20my%20Defense%20Department.”
Yeah that's the "western media just running with it" part. It really was a mis-translation by al jazeera, the guy said "casualties". As in wounded or killed. It was way too early to actually have an accurate assessment (as should be obvious by the round number).
I'll repeat it here since you seem like you missed reading it.
Then like a dipshit you post me a link to a story by a western media outlet...
seriously..
A journalist for the Atlantic, New York magazine, Wired, and other outlets did a write up about it.
https://www.silentlunch.net/p/did-the-entire-media-industry-misquote
You can literally watch the video and translate it online.
Broski- you are trusting one guy over a credible news organization. And you cite “silent lunch”.
Isnt this scraping the bottom?? Do you have any credible sources?
Please explain what you think the following means? "A journalist for the Atlantic, New York magazine, Wired, and other outlets"
Never heard of substack either apparently. /smh
Broski- If you were SO sure it was bs why didn't you go to the video from al-jazeera and run his interview through a translator? You can do this all yourself, DON'T take my word or the word of the journalist reporting it...
do it for yourself before you look like more of a dumbass.
We all know you won't because it goes against your narrative and you would rather believe a lie that reaffirms your biases and bigotry.
Having read the supplied article, the author has no information except that kills might be mistranslated. Not to get into the weeds, but it doesn’t dispute the source, nor does it offer more credible information.
And as a rule of thumb- a single dude publishing a substack doesn’t deserve more credibility than a long time news source. Not that the article supplies and information that might be argued- the whole point is that he didn’t get any information.
Called it.
Not sure what you mean?
I read the article and it didn’t say what you said it says.
You have repeatedly demonstrated your inability to read and understand words multiple times in just this comment thread.
And continued to do it here once again.
You can’t articulate your argument. That’s on you, bud.
I have multiple times had to have the EXACT words from a prior comment quoted for you to potentially comprehend anything. I'm calling into question your ability to asses that article whatsoever as you have demonstrated your lack of ability over and over. That’s on you, bud.
Kindly piss off of you can't follow along.
Don’t be an ass. Your claim was I was spreading misinformation because hamas never said that 500 people died, and was a product of western media. This isn’t what your article argues, rather that dead might have been mistranslated from injured. The core thrust of my argument remains the same- data supplied by Hamas is suspect, at best.
Again, if you’re able, explain your argument.
Try to re-read.
It might come to you.
You have all the tools needed to solve this issue.
A loss for words is still a loss.
It’s a shame, really. Not that the herd here will care- but I have always been a liberal. For 20 years I’ve voted democratic and pushed for understanding. But things are changing- have changed. We’ve polarized to the point of absurdism, arguing that one atrocity is ok and the other is not solely on the parties involved. We’ve bathed so much in the incestuous pond of cable media and internet misinformation that anything that isn’t exactly “party line” is dismissed and derided.
Currently, the line is perceived power is ultimate evil- that everyone with it is by definition a victimizer everyone without is by definition a victim. In this paradigm, the Jews, ironically, are the colonialists and can do no good, while Hamas can do no wrong. Reality is rarely so black and white.
This is no justification of Netanyahu administration. But equivocating here is wrong. Hamas started the war with capturing, raping, and murdering innocents, and wants to avoid repercussions by hiding behind their own civilians. We should be able to denounce evil where it lies- with those who caused the war. Want to end the war? Call for Hamas to surrender.
TLDR. You would make a lousy journalist and seem prone to leaning on an appeal to authority. You still have the ability to check yourself.
This is stupid distraction and whataboutism at this point. Israel has done way worse ever since.
Theres still zero hard evidence to support it was Islamic Jihad and not the IDF, but keep propagandizing. It doesnt matter how often israel lies you will take it at face value