379
Hamas official says group aims to repeat Oct. 7 onslaught many times to destroy Israel
(www.timesofisrael.com)
this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
379 points (90.6% liked)
World News
39032 readers
2894 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
To be fair, and I realize it's difficult to be fair here:
The Israeli government has said it is going for the total destruction of Hamas. Hamas has said it is going for the total destruction of the Israeli government... They've taken up equivalent positions
I think what that really means, is both belligerents are going to try the radical new policy of killing more random civilians, and seeing if anything changes..
No. Israel has said they are going for the total destruction of Hamas. Hamas is a government entity and the ruling government of Gaza.
Hamas has said they are going for the total destruction of Israel the nation. Including all Jewish civilians. Not the government, all Jewish people in Israel.
That’s been Hamas’ position for years. They want to eliminate all Jews from the region.
Literally in the article that this post is about, they said they are trying to avoid civilians. It's blatant fucking lie, but it's what they're saying.
You just said that they're going publicly, for the destruction of all Jewish people, that contradicts the article that we're talking about here. If they're stated goal is the death of Jewish people, why would they try to avoid Jewish casualties, why would they say that? If it's in their charter shouldn't they reinforce it when they're talking in public?
If we're pulling in outside sources. https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide
Nope. Quote it then if you’re so sure.
Nothing in that article at all says they have tried to avoid casualties.
So they intentionally attacked civilians, this dude is claiming they know they attacked civilians, they will do it again and again and again until they completely eliminate the entire nation of Israel. Which includes all Jews in the region.
But hey, they claimed the land originally by genociding everyone that lived there too. So it’s par for the course.
You know, I was going to point out how terrible his argument is, but there's no need for that. It should be no surprise that they are just as craven as they say they are.
He also repeated the false assertion that Hamas had not intended to harm civilians, but that there were “complications” on the ground.
From the article above
Finish the quote:
Your mental gymnastics are Olympic level, mate.
I'm not defending either government. They both clearly killed civilians intentionally
They've both made statements they wanted to destroy the opposing government.
Pointing that out shouldn't be controversial.
I gave you the relevant part of the quote, from the article, were Hamas was laying out their policy. They're lying, but their policy as stated is equivalent to the Israeli government policy. Which is exactly what you were asking me to provide in your previous comment
Their policy is also stated in their charter, which goes beyond just killing all Israeli civilians. It says they will kill all the Jews everywhere in the world.
But perhaps you'd prefer to see actions - Israel is currently engaged in urban combat with an enemy who intentionally uses civilian infrastructure (a war crime, by the way). There will be collateral damage from this, especially when Hamas don't allow civilians to evacuate out of the heavy combat areas.
Hamas on the other hand are continuing to launch rockets daily at civilian targets in Israel, intentionally targeting civilians while celebrating every rocket siren.
Did you just threaten to shoot me in the head? You're threatening violence against me for an internet discussion?
Putting that aside, Hamas is a terrible organization, they shouldn't exist, and they need to be deposed. I'm on board with that.
I'm pointing out that both belligerence have taken equivalent positions, that they want to destroy the opposing government. And a lot of civilians are going to die in the middle regardless of the rhetoric.
the ideology war is electronic in nature, these days...
Nope. I’m just saying when things do hit the fan, that the side you are on isn’t gonna fair well.
And no, again you are lying claiming that Hamas said anything about the government. I directly quoted them saying they intend to keep targeting civilians and completely annihilate the entire nation of Israel.
That’s not an equivalent position in the least.
Yes a lot of civilians will die. Mostly because Hamas keeps targeting civilians and operating military bases in civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools. Hamas already said they don’t care about their civilians and intend to martyr them. They use civilians as shields and intentionally get them killed. That’s on purpose because they’re fucking terrorists.
Hell they kill more Palestinian civilians than the IDF.
Which side do you think I'm on exactly?
I'm applying critical reading skills to every news article I'm coming across.
Apparently you have not. Because the article literally directly quotes him saying
The attack where they intentionally targeted civilians. He is saying they will do again and again. They will intentionally target civilians over and over again. By his own words.
And saying he will sacrifice his own civilians. Like I said.
And
Like I said. They want to annihilate the entire nation of Israel. Like verbatim.
I mean the dude literally said they would keep doing the same thing they did on Oct 7th. By name. Targeting civilians, until there is no Israeli nation. That literally means killing or forcing every Jewish civilian out of the region. Just like they did during the Muslim conquest of the region.
You’re very obviously on the side of Hamas given you’re outright lying about their quotes and defending their targeting of Jewish civilians. Nobody cares about your bullshit semantic arguments. Everyone can see who you are, and it doesn’t matter. Your kind will be defeated when it comes to it.
Here The term Israel is vague. It's often used as both the government, the Jewish people, and the religion.
I don't presume to speak for Hamas when they're talking about the destruction of Israel. But if we take the two parts of the article together, that a Hamas spokesperson says they're not targeting civilians, and they want to end Israel. That at least at a PR level doesn't sound like the death of the Jewish people. So if we take those two statements quoted from Hamas in the article at face value, that would imply that in that context they're talking about the end of the Israeli government. Which is equivalent to what the Israeli government wants, the end of Hamas government. Which is my entire point
I don't want that to happen, and I don't support Hamas I feel like I have to say that again.
I’m done arguing with you. Hamas verbatim said they will conduct the same attacks on civilians. The attack on October 7th was entirely civilians and Hamas said they will do exactly the same thing over and over again.
The term Israel is not vague at all. They want to kill every non Muslim. They have said and done this repeatedly. When they took over Gaza by violent coup in 2007 they started murdering al news and Christians in the Gaza Strip.
Hamas wasn’t elected. They just executed the elected government in Gaza and started killing civilians to secure their rule.
But go on and defend them.
Didn't meet and cause you distress, I apologize
For what it's worth I'm opposed to all fascist militarized theocracies hell-bent on ethnic cleansing. That means I am anti-Hamas 100%.
My dude/dudette you don’t even know what fascist means. Yeah it’s the “new” term but nothing about Hamas fits it. Fascism is an ultranationalist ideology where national identity and national position matters over everything.
Hamas doesn’t believe in nationality in general. They believe in an Islamic caliphate that will rule over all humanity. Nationality doesn’t mean fuck. They don’t believe nations even exist as a concept.
Both are right wing but not related beyond that.
You make a good point. I've just been confused by the very fluid nature of the word as it's been applied to political analysis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism
Yeah... so... after them killing over 1200 Israelis, the vast majority of them civilians, everyone they could get their hands on basically, I kinda don't trust them.
100%, they're lying through their teeth.
Yeah… so… after them killing over 5,000 Palestinians, the vast majority of them civilians, everyone they could get their hands on basically, I kinda don’t trust them.
If that utter nonsense was true there would be 100x as many dead.