this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2023
320 points (90.4% liked)

News

23311 readers
4995 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Almost one in five men in IT explain why fewer females work in the profession by arguing that "women are naturally less well suited to tech roles than men."

Feel free to check the calendar. No, we have not set the DeLorean for 1985. It is still 2023, yet anyone familiar with the industry over the last 30 years may feel a sense of déjà vu when reading the findings of a report by The Fawcett Society charity and telecoms biz Virgin Media O2.

The survey of nearly 1,500 workers in tech, those who have just left the industry, and women qualified in sciences, technology, or math, also found that a "tech bro" work culture of sexism forced more than 40 percent of women in the sector to think about leaving their role at least once a week.

Additionally, the study found 72 percent of women in tech have experienced at least one form of sexism at work. This includes being paid less than male colleagues (22 percent) and having their skills and abilities questioned (20 percent). Almost a third of women in tech highlighted a gender bias in recruitment, and 14 percent said they were made to feel uncomfortable because of their gender during the application process.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Kbin_space_program@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Except behaviour like that didn't exist in my high school, where the IT and IS classes I took were again, almost exclusively guys.

No one in the class gave a shit what gender you were, no one was harassed, but almost no girls had interest in it enough to sign up. This despite half the class being jocks who literally signed up for the class as an alternative math/science credit because they didn't pass the grade 11 science / math class(es).

My mother was in IT in the 1980s but left the field due to a combination of myself, siblings and being laid off due to the change from building sized servers to more modern ones. When she went back she didn't have the credentials or knowledge to be more than data entry.

Hell, I recall shop class in 9th grade was an even split, but suddenly in grade 10 it dropped off a cliff and became a sausage fest.

The issue I can see is that for an unknown reason school aged girls seem to have been culturally dissuaded from IT and IS when the technical revolution in the 1980s took place.

Taking one extremely isolated event that even in the event's own history is unprecedented, and extrapolating it across the entire industry is wrong and dishonest. If it was as systemic as you state, then that fair would have always had that issue, not have it suddenly occur this year.

[–] uphillbothways@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

You may feel that way strongly and want to reinforce your biases with anecdotes. Instead of argue with you in kind, allow me to provide resources going back to 2008 produced by very qualified women that come to similar conclusions. If this isn't enough there's sourced material in these and much more found elsewhere.


The Athena Factor: Reversing the Brain Drain in Science, Engineering, and Technology - June 2008

Over time, fully 52% of highly qualified females working for SET companies quit their jobs, driven out by hostile work environments and extreme job pressures.
...
Hostile macho cultures. Women in SET are marginalized by lab coat, hard hat, and geek workplace cultures that are often exclusionary and predatory (fully 63% experienced sexual harassment).
...
The data show that, for
many SET women, attrition rates spike 10 years into a career. Across the climates of science,
engineering, and technology, women experience a perfect storm in their mid- to late 30s.
...


Athena Factor 2.0:Accelerating Female Talent in Science, Engineering & Technology - 2014

In this report, we revisit the SET landscape—expanded to include Brazil, China, and India as well as the U.S.—to determine what has changed for the better and to offer solutions for what has resisted change. The good news: the pipeline of global female talent in SET remains rich and deep, with women being the majority of SET college graduates in many key geographies. They’re ambitious, eager to be promoted, and dedicated to their professions: 80 percent of U.S., 87 percent of Brazilian, 90 percent of Chinese and 93 percent of Indian SET women say they love their work. However, a sizable proportion say they feel stalled and say they are likely to quit their jobs within a year.The fundamental reasons haven’t changed. While no longer subjected to overt bias, women continue to face powerful “antigens” in SET corporate environments. However, our new data identifies newly revealed nuances.
These include:

  • Hostile macho cultures. Women in SET are marginalized by lab-coat, hard-hat, and geek workplace cultures that are often exclusionary and promulgate bias.
  • Isolation. SET women no longer find themselves the sole female on a team or at a site. Yet they still feel excluded from “buddy networks” among their peers and lack female role models.
  • Scarcity of effective sponsors. Although SET women have sponsors, they don’t reap the benefits to the degree that their male colleagues do. The “sponsor effect” (the differential in satisfaction with career progression for individuals with sponsors vs. those without) is 22 percent for U.S. SET women versus 32 percent for men, 19 percent for Brazilian SET women versus 42 percent for men, and 21 percent for Chinese SET women versus 58 percent for men.
  • Difficulty with executive presence. SET women struggle to decipher and embody leadership attributes, and receive little useful feedback to correct this perception.
    ...

...
(cont'd - 5k character count limit)

[–] uphillbothways@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If you think women in tech is just a pipeline problem, you haven’t been paying attention - 2015

According to the Harvard Business Review, 41% of women working in tech eventually end up leaving the field (compared to just 17% of men), and I can understand why…
...
Here is a sampling of just a few of the studies on unconscious gender bias:


Women in tech can get out of the mid-career limbo by being themselves–and using this one superpower to get ahead - 2023

Discussion of the same issues and strategies to work around them.


Everything I cited was found pretty easily with this search, and this was all in just the first couple pages of results (there was much, much more):

https://www.google.com/search?q=not+enouch+women+in+tech

[–] Ameripol@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

These were fantastic comments. Thank you for providing all this information, along with citing sources.

Uses study that ignores occam's razor, imagining a vast conspiracy all through Silicon Valley.

Reality is that working in Silicon Valley (and companies that follow their lead) sucks for everyone. Just women tends to care more about work life balance since they're not trained from birth that their only value is how much money they make.