this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023
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They didn't lose money, which is what they care for. They also don't lose much power on people because these who are leaving are most likely smart people that twitter and other companies don't want in the first place. Their business plan is to rely on stupid people, just like apple do selling their overpriced products, they know that no matter what as long as they stay relevant there will be idiots following the trend. Purging smart people benefits them because they can create a bigger circlejerk and keep at bay potential troublemakers. Their fail is in the total lack of foresight but big tech and capitalism never ever gave a shit about what's not directly under their nose.
You almost had me there - until you claimed Apples business plan was to sell to stupid people.
In his defense , the laptop is the only thing that you can give credit for, rest of the stuff is just overrated BS with locked in feature that will only work with other apple products so yea its selling to stupid people who love apple *ecosystem"
yeah stupid people like most tech workers who just need their tech to work as expected rather than be “customisable”
there’s value in the “just works” when not working costs you hundreds of $ per hour that it doesn’t work
$2000 for a phone is nothing when it’s a professional device
Mobile phones are toys designed not to be professional devices at all. Photographers use real cameras, journalists, business men, programmers, don't type their shit on a 1 inch touch keyboard.
If you want your tech to just work you don't buy apple products that gets locked in by updates and have all sort of incompatibilities, some of their shit doesn't even have usb ports
They are real cameras. Have you seen the photos and videos people create with phones? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8qFTgcRV6w
Yes, there are some situations where an iPhone won't get you a great photo... but that's true of any real camera too. You don't take a several hundred thousand dollar Sony HDC-4800 to a wedding for example. Professionals use the right tool for the situation and these days that is often a phone.
I'm two of those, I type constantly on my phone. Yes - I also have a nice mechanical keyboard and I always use it at my desk, but I'm not always at my desk.
Ask a photographer to take pictures at your wedding and they will show up with a real camera not with an iphone.
Most nerds I know (including sysadms) started out on Android because of all the reasons you'd expect. Most of them now use iOS / iPadOS because, at home, they want things to Just Work - and have the available income to throw at the problem. Desktop-wise many of them have used Macs on and off, but it seems like lately they trend Windows and Linux again. Probably because macOS has become more hassle than it's worth with the continued locking down, increased paranoia, lower flexibility and ridiculous storage prices. It used to be that you could work around the storage prices, but these days it's practically impossible to run programs from somewhere other than Applications if you want your system to stay up to date. Macs just aren't the great *nix alternative that they used to be, and while Windows is still pretty awful for my use, Linux as a desktop/gaming system is getting better every day. At least so far. I miss when macOS became more useful for every release. The big releases these days break more than they fix for me.
I work in software development, not sure why but most of the sysadmins and DevOps guys I know use Apple (phone and laptop). Most developers use Android (and usually Linux). Most testers use Android and Windows. This is purely from personal experience from the last few teams I worked in.
It's because DevOps need to be able to do anything, and there are some tasks where a Mac has better software. Also, iPhones have amazing integration with Macs. From copy/paste as if they were the same device to being able to open a dev tools inspector on your computer to debug a page loaded up on your phone to just not even needing to use a phone at all (you can run iPhone apps and websites, on every hardware size and operating system version, on a Mac).
In my experience very varied. I feel students lean more towards Android, but if you develop on Mac you’re also more likely to have an iPhone, but the one place where it’s somehow been consistently Android in my team is the app developers.
While I don’t mind it at all, somehow the Android build of our app still has the most issues. Consistently over almost six years now. Which I find a bit ironic.
A friend of mine that was also a former colleague has always been an Android guy. A year ago he switched employer and the new company is iPhone only - but he can’t get the latest versions, and it’s basically just the base version too. So he’s still running with his Galaxy S21, but no e-mail or calendar sync.
I think he’d switch if he could put some of his own cash in and upgrade to the top model.
People can have the preference they want in life, but there’s no need to obnoxious about it.
It's because at home the efficiency doesn't matter and you can do more with x64 still. The constraints of having their memory on the CPU instead of slightly slower socketed memory are more relevant, too, because there are more uses for higher amounts on a desktop.
Since at the very least the release of Dell XPS 13 we can have "just-works" machines that run Linux.
Also, specially for developers, the amount of software tools that have better performance and UX on linux is incredible. Homebrew is a clunky mess compared to any other package manager. I've worked with devs who refused to run docker on their machines because they said they battery got destroyed. Unless you work with iOS development there is no real, practical advantage in using MacOS for work.
Uh. No. I love Linux, use it every day, but you need to know what you're doing.
How much power a docker container uses depends on the container. Obviously if the container pegs all eight CPU cores at 100% utilisation then yeah - battery life is going to suck. But with commonplace server side software running in the container I'm able to keep docker running all the time on my Mac and get about 18 hours on battery... and that's with a battery quite a bit smaller (therefore lighter) than the battery in the XPS-13.
I have done iOS development in the past, but these days all of the software I write is for Linux. I think a Mac is the best way to develop Linux software - the Mac window manager is so much better than Gnome or KDE and it has really nice integration with other hardware (for example I'm typing this on a keyboard connected to my desktop Mac, but have the browser window open on a screen connected to my laptop Mac... you can do that on Linux, but it's just two clicks to enable it on a Mac and requires installing/configuring/troubleshooting third party software on Linux)
I have Linux installed on my Mac - and it works perfectly... if it was better I would be using it.
lol what? How do you think the world works? What kind of argument is that - at all? SMH
Right. Keep pretending.
“Known to scam people”, “designed to stop working”.
I am fully aware that people can say anything on the internet, but clearly you are not objective at all.
Obviously any further attempt at discussion is pointless. Enjoy your fruit-less life, may it treat you with software updates until the next flagship device is launched.
The scam part notwithstanding, Apple products are designed to stop working. Or, at least, degrade more quickly than they might otherwise. That's just planned obsolescence though, and Apple certainly isn't the only one.
Should Apple support their products longer?
Yes, definitely.
But there’s a big difference between not supporting old devices with software updates and designing them to stop working which you allege to.
If you ask me theres way worse fish out there than Apple, and if you look at phone support Apple is the golden standard by a mile with most Android devices still not being supported for more than a year or two tops.
What we should have is a requirement to support devices for at least ten years.
Yes, I know, ten years is a long time, but we’ve gotten to a point where we should expect a device that’s been treated well to last that long.
My 2013 MBP runs just fine, so does my 2011 MBA, my dad’s Fujitsu-Siemens laptop from 2008 even still works. But only one of those is running an updated operating system. Guess which one?
Doesn’t mean that the product is designed to fail, just that Apple chose not to support them any longer.
Mind that I'm not the person you originally responded to. I don't think Apple installs a time bomb that bricks your device at a certain point.
But it's disingenuous to say they aren't intentionally reducing product life spans, and degrading the experience in the meantime. I don't necessarily mean support either!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate
You're free to decide if you take their statements on this at face value. But it's really not just Apple. It's everyone. Cars today have a shorter lifespan than they used to. Fridges. Laptops. Competitor phones.
Like are you saying planned obsolescence isn't a thing generally, isn't a thing for Apple, or just that it isn't that bad with them?
I’m saying that anyone singling out Apple for planned obsolescence and disregarding the rest of the market is playing into someone’s playbook.
I’m also fully aware of the so-called batterygate (oh, how I loathe how people add a “gate”-suffix to things to make a “scandal” completely clueless to the fact that Water_gate_ was the name of a fucking hotel. Anyways…), and while we may only speculate wether or not Apple was trying to push people to buy new phones, from appearances it would seem that they were acting in the (somewhat*, I’ll get back to that later) best interest of the consumers, but just failing to communicate it in a good manner.
Now let me get back to my asterisk:
*: There are different types of battery chemistries, and while Apple thumped their own chests back in the day that their MacBook batteries took 1000 charge cycles to get to 80% of factory capacity.
Apple willingly choose to use cheaper chemistries for iPhone batteries than they could use if they wanted longevity to be higher.
So yes, in that regard you can argue planned obsolescence. The amount of money Apple charge for their phones they could definitely put better batteries in, but on the other hand there’s likely arguments for why they choose these batteries, such as capacity or other characteristics. I’m not going to claim to be an expert on battery chemistries, and will leave that to someone else.
With regards to some of your comments on longevity then and now; note that we used to use the best material to make something, regardless of its impact on people and environment. Some environmental concerns do actually reduce product longevity.
Combined with increased technological complexity and a higher rate of improvement in the digital era than in the analog era it’s been a long period where don’t think it’s too bad to replace a device after a few years time.
However, we’re now seeing so good performance from a lot of our tech products that an upgrade feels much more incremental than it used to.
I definitely think we should demand more lifetime from our products, but this needs to be through regulation and not just left to consumers.
Louis Rossmann also had some good points here: https://youtu.be/l27_75pDvd4
We should be able to use cloud features without being locked to the manufacturer. Especially if they go belly-up.
He mentions a Chinese car manufacturer, and Arlo cameras, but it could just as well be Norwegian EV charge box manufacturer Easee, or a cell phone manufacturer like RIM (BlackBerry) or a TV manufacturer, etc.
So many products today depend on cloud services for basic functionality, and for a lot of those devices their planned obsolescence will be the cloud service they’re connected to.
You mentioned apple, what's your thoughts on macbook air or pro ? The reason I am asking is because I am looking for a new laptop.
There are better value options if you're looking to play games on it. There are cheaper options if budget is a huge concern and you're OK with low quality plastic builds.
For all metal construction their value is really good, and there still isn't anything out there that balances the power and battery life they offer. For most professional use cases (which usually mean working with video/photos, in terms of what's demanding on a laptop), they're at minimum competitive on raw power. The biggest difference is that can use that power all day on battery, while the stuff that can be argued to be competitive will chew through the battery at high loads (and, compared to Apple, at idle, too).
You actually have no idea what you're taking about. Don't you?
It's pretty spot on.
There is nothing on the market at any price that provides both of the performance on battery and battery life the MacBook Air has, let alone higher tiers. Apple Silicon is sincerely insanely impressive.
Apple has also always been perfectly fine performance per dollar in the class they've actually been in. Their build quality isn't perfect, but it blows everything meaningfully cheaper out of the water. You can't compare an aluminum shell with trashy plastic and be surprised the plastic is cheaper. The actually well built stuff like thinkpads were never meaningfully different pricing than Apple. That's what it costs.
Please ignore cloud; they have been posting inaccurate flamebait throughout this thread.
I would never not buy a laptop from Apple. Not only are they the last PC maker that hasn't fallen to the Microsoft Monopoly Machine, but their laptops are well-built†, futuristic, and have incredible value and battery life for what you get. Especially since they migrated off of Intel.
† I know someone will inevitably come up with a counter-example, but the last time they had a widespread quality problem was a little more than ten years ago.
Why would you want one? They are overpriced, unreliable and closed in all possible ways. You can't change os as you want or swap a component in these. Look at pinebooks or similar devices or used laptops which are well supported by the community like old thinkpads. If you need a more powerful device buy a desktop
Need processing power and battery backup which sadly theres no other laptop out there that can beat apple macbook for the price.
get a laptop with a removable battery and you can swap as many as you want also i doubt you will be much time away from a power switch. As for processing power if you need to do anything serious you are supposed to do it on a desktop
Fascinating