this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2023
1406 points (98.5% liked)

News

23284 readers
3706 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Blackbeard@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah, so they weren't true Scotsmen?

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That fallacy only holds when it's a retroactive and also incorrect claim of category error. This is neither retroactive nor incorrect. The USSR is not communist by any definition, not now, or before it existed, either. Marx himself wouldn't have been a fan.

To oversimplify, there are three criteria for communism:

  1. The state must be abolished. That means no government, no class of rulers, no individual or group with a monopoly claim on force to achieve their ends. People self-manage and organise their affairs and business by common agreement and consent based on mutual aid and co-operation.

  2. Classes must be abolished. There can be no class distinctions remaining; specifically, no owners who can exploit workers. All are workers, and all commonly own all materially productive components of society. Nothing is privately owned by individuals (meaning nothing is gatekept for the purposes of gaining materially from doing so), but is democratically organised on the basis of need.

  3. Money itself must be abolished. Once democracy has prevailed over the economy, the common ownership of the means of production has been achieved, and thus everyone has reached the stage where they can freely consume what they need and want without worry of whether they can "afford" it, money will be seen as the arbitrary constraint that it is, and cease to be useful, and disappear completely.

None of these things happened under the USSR. If Marx were a teacher and the USSR his student, they would get a failing grade.

[–] Blackbeard@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

No true "no true Scotsman fallacy" fallacy?

We have to go deeper!

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 2 points 1 year ago

Well? You not gonna acknowledge that definitions exist?

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Dude... definitions exist. Sometimes things don't meet them. Are you gonna deny that? Does "no true scotsman" just mean "any claim that a thing is not a true example of some category" to you? Is a bicycle a true example of a sandwich? Is a Frenchman living in Paris a true Scotsman?

Did the USSR meet even one of those standards? Answer this if you only answer one.

[–] HerrBeter@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Much like the kleptocratic-fascist China and North Korea is a republic by name only. Read up on your fallacies