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This is just disgusting behaviour. No one should ever be calling for genocide, regardless of any circumstances. Also, why are all Jewish people being conflated with the Israeli government? Jews outside Israel have no power over its government, and even Israelis had to go through some five hung elections to get Netanyahu back in power, indicating that he clearly has less than 50% of the country’s support.
Now if they had been shouting “fuck Bibi” or “end the occupation” or “no more genocide against Palestine” I’d be right there with them. These idiots have no fucking clue how to garner support, so all they’re doing is giving Israel more moral high-ground. Goddamn Nazis need to learn some physical consequences.
A big problem in conflating the bad government and the ethnic population and the religion is the fact the country is setup as a religious ethnocentric state. The titles, messaging, and words all conflate.
People are terrible with nuance at the best of times, when they are emotional that nuanced capacity goes out the window. So you can't be pro Palestine, anti Hamas and have any discussion.
This inability to maintain nuance applies to the other side too. You're either pro Israel, or anti-Semitic, at least in the public discourse. You can't be pro-Palestinian, anti Israeli (government), pro Jewish, that viewpoint has too much nuance for discourse in social media.
I think the discourse here is showing that nuance is definitely possible in social media, but that those social media that favour nuance are the absolute minority and located predominately away from mainstream social media.
I’m pro-Palestinians, pro-Israelis, anti-Hamas, anti-Zionist, anti-Hezbollah and anti-Israeli Government simultaneously, and that view seems to be pretty well accepted here.
What's the difference between anti-Zionist, and anti Israeli government?
We're having a good discussion in this thread. But another threads I've participated in recently, the discussion goes quickly off the rails.
Not all Israeli parties are Zionist - it’s predominately the coalition of right-wing parties. To paint all Israeli politicians as being Zionist is a bit disingenuous, although I do admit that the vast majority of Israeli political discourse is dominated by Zionist overtones.
There are also cultural and religious minorities in Israel - predominately Christians and Muslims - and the Knesset has had a fairly stable cohort of Arab or Druze members since it was established.
If we’re talking about the current ruling parties? Absolutely, they’re Zionist through-and-through. But they’re not reflective of the whole Knesset.
There are also Zionists outside of Israel - Evangelical Americans as a group come to mind here. There are many people of many religions around the world that believe that Israel has the right to Palestine for one arcane reason or another.
To suffice: not all Israeli government are Zionists; not all Zionists are Israeli.
That was a very succinct explanation. Thank you
Completely agree. And this conflation of Jewish people and the Israeli government actions, mostly pushed by Zionists, is something that progressive, pro-palestine Jewish people have been complaining about forever.
Right there with you. Anyone that didn't immediately shut that shit down was complicit, making it a bunch of fascists masking their bullshit in leftist positions.
I swear every good cause have god damn idiots like these messing them up.
If you read the article you will notice this was a minority group of idiots that were quickly shut down by the protest organisers.
Yeah, I did note that in the article when I read it. My comment wasn’t directed at the protest organisers - it was specifically towards the Nazis in the crowd. I thought my comment indicated that; sorry if I wasn’t clear enough.
Israels is trying to rope all Jews in, demanding support and claiming itself to be the state representing judaism as a whole.
Unfortunately many jewish organizations around the world consider unconditional support for Israel as part of their goals, even when Israel is commiting crimes against humanity. There is also jewish organizations with a balanced view towards Israel, but they are unfortunately much smaller.
As a secular non-Israeli Jew, this is absolutely correct. They correctly state that they're the country of last resort, the refuge for Jews if things go full Nazi in whatever country you're in. Then they use that status to try and get unconditional support for all their policies.
Likud, Shas, the various hyper-religious parties and all their allies shouldn't be allowed to run a corner store, let alone a country.
Especially Otzma Yehudit. Those people are scum of the highest order.
Ironically, Israel is getting closer to full nazi than most other places with large Jewish populations. Perhaps they will soon be fleeing for Europe or North America.
You've got me, but I've had to justify that multiple times about myself.
I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that. That’s not okay. You deserve to have an identity beyond Zionism and whatever makes up the current Knesset. I’m sorry that other people don’t have the nuance to understand you. Please keep bringing your point forth, we need to hear more Jewish and Palestinian voices in this conflict.
My voice honestly doesn’t matter. I’m not Palestinian nor am I Israeli. But I hope it’s heard and brings civilians - the innocent casualties on both sides - together to understand that their respective representatives are engaging in atrocities and to protest those so-called representatives.
I'm not Israeli, just Jewish. Which is why I hate having to explain that I'm not a Zionist just because I'm a Jew.
I can’t imagine what that’s like; I’m so sorry for your experience. It’s not okay for others to lump you in with a crowd based solely on your religion or cultural background. That’s honestly just discrimination, and no tolerant society should accept that. I hope that we soon have a day where your existence doesn’t need to be explained to those who don’t understand it.
I appreciate it, thank you.