this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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Gaming

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[–] Steeve@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

... did you not read the rest of my comment?

And frankly that's not how this works. You're the one trying to convince me that a union is in my best interest, the burden of proof is on you and you've given no substantial evidence.

[–] Blake@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I read your whole comment, but at no point does it explain why you think you wouldn’t be able to negotiate improvements with a union. What you have written essentially amounts to:

“I was able to build a really beautiful cabinet with hand tools. I reject the notion that power tools make it easier to build cabinets. I know people who have power tools but they haven’t made cabinets as nice as mine.”

If you have multiple people as a group who have the power to completely sink a business negotiating together, they stand a much better chance of improving conditions than any of them do alone.

How are you reasoning against such a self-evidently true claim?

[–] Steeve@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

My point is that skilled individuals in specialized fields already have strong individual bargaining power, something that you continue to underestimate in this thread. Collective bargaining is not risk free with one outcome, this is a fact that all the nuance free analogies in the world won't change. If the sector is overall happy with individual bargaining power you're going to need more proof than supposed "self-evident" claims.

Let me fix your analogy. A power tool salesman walks up to my door and tells me I have to throw out my hand tools because I can build cabinets much faster without them and then calls me an idiot for not wanting to throw away the tools I've mastered over the last decade.

[–] Blake@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago

I’m in the same field as you are with years more experience. Not only that, I have experience in management in the same field.

I am not denying that you have individual bargaining power that I’m sure you’re leveraging successfully.

I am just pointing out to you that if you were unionised, you’d have even more bargaining power which would almost definitely have resulted in a better outcome for you.

Collective bargaining may not be risk free, but it’s lower risk than individual bargaining, by definition.

There’s plenty of proof, and I don’t see why I need any more. You’re just refusing to acknowledge it, like a flat earther faced with the results of their experiment refusing to accept it. Just because you say “no, I don’t like this scientific proof” it doesn’t mean that I’m somehow failing to back up my argument when I refuse to give you more proof. You have THE proof of the matter. Accept it and be right, or reject it and be wrong. It’s up to you.

As for your analogy, being in a union does not mean you lose your individual bargaining rights, you can continue to negotiate your salary individually if you wish to do so. You do not lose any power or rights from being in a union. You only gain power.