Voting doesn't work because voters are like internet users, they are a given. Citizens have to offer their votes like lobbyists offer money to have an influence.

[–] darq@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Voting alone also doesn't work because the options provided and the specifics of the voting system are decided by people who have an incentive to rig them in their favour. You cannot vote for options that are not allowed.

Hence needing to vote, and do more outside of voting, rather than sheepishly just doing the same thing for decades while it fails over and over again.

[–] trailing9@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would like to believe in your approach but I don't believe in protests. That's transferring union tactics from companies to the state. It's valid in a monarchy but in a democracy, you can talk to other voters and have them support your cause. The citizens are the state.

Votes drive change. Believing in other means distracts from the real origin of power.

But votes have to be negotiated. Blindly voting for one's own team turns citizens into a product.

[–] darq@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would like to believe in your approach but I don’t believe in protests.

Okay, good luck being ignored and accomplishing nothing.

That’s transferring union tactics from companies to the state.

Good. Because those work.

It's valid in a monarchy but in a democracy, you can talk to other voters and have them support your cause. The citizens are the state.

Only if the democratic process accurately reflects the will of the people. And only if the rights of minorities are protected.

In many places, including the US and the UK, neither of those are true.

Votes drive change. Believing in other means distracts from the real origin of power.

Votes are one of many "real" origins of power. To ignore the others is stupidity.

[–] trailing9@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are other origins of power but votes are special because they control the law.

Which protests are not ignored?

All origins of power will align when citizens coordinate their votes before an election.

It's a bit Leninistic. If voting is a race among teams, a state is created that stands atop the citizens.

If citizens debate before the election about what they want and coordinate their votes, then the state represents their will.

[–] darq@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are other origins of power but votes are special because they control the law.

No votes do not control the law. They elect the government, who controls the law,

The government can be influenced by various means. Voting is but one of them.

Nobody cares if you do not like other methods, such as strikes and protests, they are still effective. And the owning class already uses other methods, such as lobbying and outright bribery, so to constrain oneself to methods that don't work is voluntary surrender.

Which protests are not ignored?

Pretty much every civil rights and liberation movement around the world has been accomplished through a diversity of strategies, which almost always include protest.

If citizens debate before the election about what they want and coordinate their votes, then the state represents their will.

Please pull your head out and observe reality.

[–] trailing9@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

owning class... uses... lobbying

Civil right and liberation... has been,... including...

One is in the past, the other is present.

I am arguing for using lobbying as citizens.