Socialism

2850 readers

2 users here now

Beehaw's community for socialists, communists, anarchists, and non-authoritarian leftists (this means anti-capitalists) of all stripes. A place for all leftist and labor news and discussion, as long as you're nice about it.

Non-socialists are welcome to come to learn, though it's hard to get to in-depth discussions if the community is constantly fighting over the basics. We ask that non-socialists please be respectful and try not to turn this into a "left vs right" debate forum by asking leading questions or by trying to draw others into a fight.

This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

alyaza@beehaw.org

OneRedFox@beehaw.org

Are you also an abolitionist? How do you see abolition and socialism related to another? (self.socialism)

submitted 1 year ago by mambabasa to c/socialism@beehaw.org

16 comments fedilink hide all child comments

For me, it's pretty clear that police and prisons reinforce class society and are things that factor into proletarianization. Therefore there can be no socialism without abolition. A corollary states that socialist projects that reinstituted police and prisons (gulags and checka anyone?) couldn't be socialist because by using police and prisons it reinforced proletarianization and class relations.

What do you think?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] yaspora@baraza.africa 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm not an abolitionist because "abolition" doesn't go far enough. It's no accident that abolitionists mostly talk about "abolishing" visibly repressive arms of the state but not so much the nation-state system in its entirety, or the European cultural base it rests on. Most of them shy away from even fighting to abolish the nation-state they live in because then they wouldn't be able to demand policy changes from it.

[–] mambabasa 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That doesn't sound right. The abolitionists I follow absolutely do want to abolish not just policing and incarceration but everything that stands in the way of true safety and what causes people to commit crimes. These include cisheteropatriarchy, settler-colonialism, racism, capitalism, heck many even want to abolish the state.

[–] yaspora@baraza.africa 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Who are the abolitionists you follow? By using the word "follow" I'm guessing you're talking about highly visible or well-known abolitionists, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[–] mambabasa 1 points 1 year ago

ABOLISYON!, a local group in the Philippines. For the US-based ones, there's Mariame Kaba, Dylan Rodriguez, and Dean Spade. There's also various Black Anarchic Radicals like Lorenzo Kom'boa Ervin and others.

[–] meteorswarm@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm an abolitionist and an anarchist and I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. I know of anarchists who still envision prisons or something like them, and I view my abolitionism as opposing that even in an anarchist society.

[–] yaspora@baraza.africa 1 points 1 year ago

I mean...I wouldn't expect an abolitionist to agree with an analysis that says abolition doesn't cut it.