We're the good guys, they're the bad guys. Isn't it?
this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2023
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"Oh look an Enlightened Centrist post. I thought you morons all stayed with Reddit."
Thank you for proving my point. And in such a colorful way!
I think you pretty fundamentally misunderstand what people mean when they say "enlightened centrist". Because it's not actually demonising having an open mind. It's referring to people who adopt a smarter-than-thou attitude while insisting that listening to bigotry is of vital importance.
Except centrists say we should. All the time. As long as bigotry is dressed up in "civil" language, centrists will say that it's fair game.
I am constantly told, by centrists, that my right to exist in society is open for debate. Whether or not I can get my healthcare, or if it is criminalised, is an open question. And that's not rare, I see it almost every day, from people who think of themselves as "center".
No. That's just right-wing rubbish.
There are a tiny handful of opinions deemed bigoted. It's just that the right-wing is utterly obsessed with them, and wants to talk about them all the time.
People can hold conservative and right-wing opinions about taxation or spending or foreign policy without being called bigoted. Progressives would probably disagree vehemently with them. But it's not bigotry.
That is you strawmanning people, if that is what you think.
Talk what out? Be specific. It matters.
Again, many topics are perfectly open for debate.
People's inclusion in society as equals, is not.
Civil tone does not a civil idea make, is all I'd add to that.
Oh bite me. I'm not "choosing tribalism". Direct your ire to the people slinging abuse at minorities, not at minorities who are tired of endlessly debating their own existence.
Not just on the surface. Don't downplay.
Historically speaking, you are dead wrong. Societies have fallen to fascism precisely because of moderates and "centrists" making room for fascism to flourish, and impeding efforts to shut it down before it entrenches itself, because they were convinced that "civil conversation" was the only way forward.
You might feel superior to those of us actually doing the work, but you are standing in the way of actually getting things done. And you will be treated accordingly.
Well the most important thing is that you feel morally superior to other people, and create spaces that minoritised people don't feel welcome in because allowing bigots to voice their nonsense is more important than actually listening to those minoritised people.
My "idea" that I should be able to exist in society.
Words cannot adequately express the depth of the loathing and hatred I hold towards you and people who hold your ideals.
It's "thankless" because you are a complete tool. It's "thankless" because you think people's right are up for debate. Because you think it's reasonable to tell minoritised people to simply wait, probably for the rest of their lives, for their ability to participate in society as equals.
And of course it's not YOU paying the price, you just condescendingly demand other people pay the price. Because for you, it's more important that the bigots are comfortable, than minorities getting to live their lives.
If you aren't sure how else we expect to make progress, open up a damn history book. Pride was a riot.
... I'm saying that the life I'm currently living, and the lives of my friends, and materially worse precisely because there are a lot of people who do not think we deserve to exist.
You make it sound like this trivially simple process. That all we have to do is have these discussions and we'll come out with a positive result. That we just need to go out there, and we'll change hearts and minds, and we'll all live happily ever after.
What world are you living in? Pull your head out of your arse.
We've been having these same discussions for decades at least. We've had genocides and fought wars over these ideas that you think we should just "change people's minds" about.
No. I'm the one taking the abuse, and you're the idiot telling me I shouldn't fight back and should try talking things out instead.
Don't flatter yourself. You aren't my ally. You are the enemy.
And you keep disregarding what I'm saying, and ignoring that your approach objectively doesn't work, and ignoring that it only serves to alienate the people you are insisting you are allied with. People like you are the reason so many minorised people hate centrists. You are the exact type of moderate MLK Jr. expressed disappointment over in his letter from a Birmingham jail.
But this interaction has been what I have come to expect from an "enlightened" centrist. It's The Cost of Doing Business.
That you think of this as the example of compromise really explains where you mind is.
Yes, did you?
You talk of being reasonable but posit the most unreasonable position and claim it's as proof that others are unreasonable.
You're completely full of shit.
Meanwhile, please show me a truly centrist path to the battle for rights. I would love to hear what a person like you sees as a reasonable outcome that somehow pleases those who deserve something unalienable and those who wish to obliterate those who fight for something unalienable.
Right so my take on you is made up but your strawman isn't?
Meanwhile, I'm waiting on your reasonable apprpach.
Your point is moronic. You guys think you're being reasonable and finding the middle when all that's happening is you're being pipelined into fascism with some extra steps.
The only people that I have ever seen bitch and moan about centrists are Marxists... Who are just as ignorant, violent, hateful, extreme, delusional, and brain dead as their Fascist friends. I'll take a centrist any day of the week over a Marxist or a Fascist