Degrowth

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Discussions about degrowth and all sorts of related topics. This includes UBI, economic democracy, the economics of green technologies, enviromental legislation and many more intressting economic topics.

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MrMakabar

Is degrowth possible under capitalism? (self.degrowth)

submitted 1 year ago by mambabasa to c/degrowth

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Let's put some life into this sub. I don't think degrowth is possible under capitalism because the imperative to degrow contradicts the capitalist drive for the creation of value (valorization) which must always grow under capitalism'

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[–] mambabasa 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That reminds me that the Chinese communist journal Chuang 1 suggests that wage-labor under Mao-era China wasn't capitalist because it wasn't in service of capital accumulation or valorization. An interesting thesis, something I think about but have trouble fully agreeing. But the thing is that they agree that it isn't socialist either because it still had the existence of wages and a proletarian class.

That begs the question, what is worker's authority and is it socialist? I would say that it isn't socialist yet but has the potential to move towards socialism if it actually moves to progressively abolish class distinctions like wages.

[–] bouh@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I feel like you're leaning toward anarchism rather than socialism here. Hierarchy and authority are not necessarily bad things.

I see where you come from with wages I think though. There is a difference between the pay you get for a work, and a pay you would get to work. One would be a transaction while the other would be a societal agreement or something like that. I don't remember the details of this theory and I don't have the words to talk about it in English unfortunately.

Same goes for socialist, I feel the meaning you're using it for here is very specific.

[–] mambabasa 2 points 1 year ago

I haven't even begun to get into the question of hierarchy and authority. But this is the meaning of socialism that was accepted by the first, second, and third international before the second and third international descended into chauvinism and Stalinism respectively. It's only relatively recently with the degeneration of social democracy into neoliberalism and Marxism to Stalinism that the meaning has become perverted and vulgarized.