this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
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Like it or not (I don't), free speech has nothing to do with social media. Platforms are free to do this, it's the government that can't limit your speech like this.
Given those circumstances, I wonder if social media should be treated like infrastructure. That would fuse constitutional rights and the platform itself.
Not even the US is a "freeze peach absolutist". That's a dog whistle term for people who want to do hate crimes without fear of reprisal
Or you just get beat up, and nobody on the street has seen anything: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/14/drunken-american-beaten-up-for-giving-nazi-salute-in-germany
Vigilantism isn't a solution... But I wouldn't have seen a thing either.
EDIT: Ignore this post; I was running on 6 hours of sleep and no caffeine and this is why, we stay off of Lemmy early in the morning. I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings.
While you're right, I think the issue here is the hypocrisy of Musk claiming to be pro free speech (specifically on his platform) only to then repeatedly limit speech he doesn't personally like.
I feel pretty numb to right wing hypocrisy at this point. Which is probably their exact playbook.
Indeed. Personally my problem isn't with them limiting the "freedom of speech". It's with them claiming they have it or that it's even relevant there, as you've said.
Same page club. I think centralized social media is going to die sooner or later anyway*, so I'm thinking it's only a problem in the short term.
*Making money from social media just sounds like some weird shit in a history book to me, like merkins. We'll see I guess.
Free speech has nothing to do with social media or governments. Freedom of speech is a universal, natural right that has been with our species since we gained the power of speech through evolution.
yeah not sure about that. Most of human history would say freedom of speech (and most of the concept of natural rights) is a rather newish ideology. In the past, speaking negatively of higher powers (religious organizations, ruling class, etc) could lead to sanctions, imprisonment, or death and that is still very much the case in many countries to this day. We can argue _____ is a "natural right" till you have arthritis in your hand joints but you have to be blind to think governments have nothing to do with it and its enforcement. In a utopia, maybe it is granted naturally on birth but in reality it is a "right" that has to be "fought" for (legally or with arms). Like are you seriously arguing the people of North Kor... Sorry, I mean the Democratic People's Republic of Korea are born with this "natural right" of free speech but if they dare use it they and possibly their immediate family may be subject to torture, rape, reeducation camps, and/or work camps.
It's "newish" for Homo sapiens, but it originated during the Enlightenment in the 17th century. I struggle to call that "new." However I don't subscribe to the concept of natural rights. Rights are what people afford each other in a society. In a democracy, we vote on rights. In anarchy, rights are given and taken at the end of a gun.
It's definitely new in the context of their comment, which says it's been around since we had the power of speech.
My last house was older than free speech as a concept.
I would agree. As long as it doesn't violate the law, people should have the right to express their opinions freely. But nowadays it's getting pretty hard to do so.
I mean it depends, what are you talking about? Yeah I can see the point of not arresting people for dropping the N word or something or maybe doing a Hitler salute but are you referring to people using their own freedom of speech to argue/debate one's own opinion? Maybe a companies right to associate with only those it choose to do so with (unless that discrimination is against those of protected classes). Like no company would probably want to be associated with a known verbal racist, it just hurts their possibility to get new clients or possibly sever current client relations. The reason why many companies go "woke" or stray to the left is because companies never want to have one of their advertisements right next to a Nazi/race supremacist rant, people will start associating the company with what their ad is paying for. Elon is learning in the most ass backwards way of why Twitter did X thing, in this case why twitter wasn't the "haven" of free speech is because advertisers don't want this and advertisers are the ones who pay a hefty chunk of the bills.
Universal? So I can go to all of your neighbors and tell them you're a pedophile and that's ok?
That's a very strange takeaway from my comment.
I'm not sure what else universal means other than 'applies in all circumstances.'
Well that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
You're generally right and I have nothing to take away from that. Right now I'm talking specifically about the "law" of free speech with regard to the US Constitution.
Sounds like it doesn't matter what Twitter does then. Human history spans several thousand years, possibly ten thousand. If freedom of speech has been there throughout, then Twitter is completely inconsequential, considering free speech was doing fine literally thousands of years before it.