.....that is a profoundly stupid way to look at it, you cannot exist without hurting something or someone, your mere existence causes pain to some people, and they'd much rather you stop existing, are you going to oblige them too? To define pain and suffering as unacceptable in all forms is to deny reality.

[–] bulbasaur@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nice ableism. No one is forcing you to support the rape and murder of sentient beings so you can put their corpses in your mouth. You can choose not to do it, don't pretend your hands are tied

[–] Galven@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

No, we can't, we're omnivores, while you can survive on plant-based sources of protein, in the long term, it causes problems. Getting the right nutrients is difficult and expensive, even in the short-term, meaning that you have to be profoundly privileged to do it, so technically, you're classist.

And you didn't answer my question, what about all the other suffering you support? People who suffer so that you can be comfortable, everyone from the avocado farmers and factory workers to the bugs/animals that get poisoned by various pesticides? How is their pain ok, while the cows' pain is unacceptable? Do you understand that you can't exist without causing some pain and discomfort, somewhere to something?? The only reason you have a problem with eating meat is because that is right in front of you.

[–] usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not the original commenter, but wanted to add some rebuttal to a few of those claims

In terms of health

It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/

In terms of costs

It found that in high-income countries:

• Vegan diets were the most affordable and reduced food costs by up to one third.

• Vegetarian diets were a close second.

• Flexitarian diets with low amounts of meat and dairy reduced costs by 14%.

• By contrast, pescatarian diets increased costs by up to 2%.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study

In terms of issues with crop production

Those end up being reduced due to the lesser need to grow crops. Is it perfect, no, but does it end up substantially ahead, yes

So for instance terms of pesticides, the usage still ends up lower due to a lesser need to grow feed crops

To produce 1 kg of protein from kidney beans required approximately eighteen times less land, ten times less water, nine times less fuel, twelve times less fertilizer and ten times less pesticide in comparison to producing 1 kg of protein from beef

(emphasis mine)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25374332/

More broadly

Plant-based foods have a significantly smaller footprint on the environment than animal-based foods. Even the least sustainable vegetables and cereals cause less environmental harm than the lowest impact meat and dairy products [9].

https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/8/1614/htm

This is because

1 kg of meat requires 2.8 kg of human-edible feed for ruminants and 3.2 for monogastrics

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2211912416300013

[–] Galven@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

In terms of health, it's healthy

There are people, whose whole job, and primary source of income is being vegan and talking about being vegan, and many of those people complain about the health problems they have, despite of all the effort they've put into it. So no.

In terms of issues with crop production

So murder of things is fine, then? You we'ren't complaining about the amount of meat people were eating , you were complaining that people eat meat at all.

And again, you didn't answer the most important part, what about the human pain and suffering your lifestyle causes?

[–] BelieveRevolt@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

omnivore tho

bugs die tho

expensive tho

Bingo card is looking good.

[–] Galven@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, yes, you're hypocrites, I'm glad you agree with me. So long acknowledge it, and don't bother me, I don't care what you do.

[–] BelieveRevolt@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm so glad you care so much about the suffering of bugs! Heartwarming. Maybe one day you'll actually care about the suffering of cows, pigs and chickens too.

You don't want to comment on the extremely well-sourced post above this one? Strange! BTW, if you're so worried about the welfare of avocado farmers, maybe you should also be worried about the welfare of slaughterhouse workers, many of whom develop PTSD from killing the animals needed for your le steak and bacon.

[–] Galven@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I acknowledge the suffering of bugs, the same way I acknowledge the suffering of animals, as the necessary thing that it is. I don't pretend one is more important then the other just because it's cute.

You don’t want to comment on the extremely well-sourced post above this one? Strange!

I did, people have gotten sick being vegan, people whose job it was to be vegan(vegan youtubers), so to sit there and pretend that it's healthy is a conversation ender.