812
Harris Tried to Win Over Republicans. Democratic Support Collapsed Instead.
(www.rollingstone.com)
this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2024
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Yes, my friend was one of them. I was shocked when 2 weeks before election he told me he was planning on not voting.
I asked why and he cited holding the same position Isreal as Biden, and courting republicans like Cheney, saying that was not a good look for the party at all.
I told him it’s not ideal, but we need to vote to keep Trump out…. Sometimes we just have to be pragmatic.
He responded saying it’s the Dem establishment that keeps allowing a boogey man like Trump to rise so they can shove center right corporatists down our throats. He said he was abstaining from voting to send a message to the DNC, and followed it up with, “we survived a first Trump term, I’m sure we can survive a second.”
As long as you weren't one of the million Americans who died of COVID thanks to his misadministration.
Or the Capitol police who died as a result from his attempted insurrection.
I mean, he’s an ex-pat who was living in Hong Kong, S Korea, and Vietnam for most of Trumps first term… so I’m sure he didn’t feel it as hard as most of us who were here for it.
"Thousands of my countrymen will perish, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
It's a mistake reasoning as if you're taking of one guy. Maybe one third of your population voted, and most of those voted for Trump, it means that most of you guys are pretty ok with dying during the next COVID or whatever
And this is what you don't get. There's a huge fucking gap between "not ideal" and "supporting genocide to the point that Dick Cheney likes you." And you didn't acknowledge it. You just belittled it with "not ideal." Because you couldn't admit that what Democrats were doing was monstrous and unconscionable.
Anyone who pulls this "you didn't get 100% of everything you want, but..." shit? They got 100% of everything they wanted. Especially the genocide support. And especially Cheney.
So the thought is that Trump will stop the genocide.
The thought is that running to the right failed. The thought is that Harris should have listened to criticism.
We tried to warn you what would happen, and every last time, we got this insipid unthinking "you say something me not want hear! Me accuse you of being trumper! Me very smart!" shit. You have learned absolutely nothing from 2016 and 2024.
In 2028, if there is an election, let's hope some of you have learned that treating your base with contempt while simping for Republicans doesn't work.
Dems have always hated progressives more than the right. And you're saying "you" a bunch, and I guess you mean neoliberal Democrats or some other people who aren't me... but anyway.
I'm asking about the strategy of, on election day: "One side is/is moving towards the right, and I don't like that. To combat that, I'll allow the most extreme right people into power, with a solid chance of destroying whatever is left of USA's democracy, while stripping it for parts."
In a binary system, how does choosing the worse side help you? Did you not learn from Trumps last victory, that sitting on the sideline while fascists take away more and more rights while cementing their power and destroying institutions, doesn't work?
You just got a great indicator of where the "Let's do anything we want and as long as we're second worst, everyone who isn't a monster has to vote for us!" mindset leads.
But blaming the voters is easier than introspection and adaptation. So lecture away and learn nothing.
I was simply asking the thought process on voting day while agreeing with the majority of your complaints. But you aren't interested in discussing anything, you just want to throw a fit and feel smug. Carry on then, I'm sure that's working out for you.
They won't. They'll be open fascists in hope that motivates people on trump's 3rd term.
Certainly hope we can
Yeah, I am definitely in the camp that Trump part 2 will be worse…. but we don’t know for sure yet
Keep in mind Trump is pushing 80 and has a steady diet of McDonalds and Diet Coke. Here’s to hoping nature takes its course.
Do you think Vance is going to be better?
Better isn’t the word I would use. I don’t think Vance could be the cult leader Trump is. I think when Trump dies it will at least take some time to build up another cult leader.
I honestly don't know. He's not as viscerally mean as Trump, but he's also a lot smarter. I think some part of him is a fancy boy who wants to be liked and to win by being clever and insightful rather than just brutal. He used to write about his nice life in San Francisco doing community gardening. If he could get the upper-crust to like him (not just use him) that seems like something he'd enjoy.
But then again, he sold out to the guy he thought was Hitler, so he might just be completely without shame or conscience.
I remember when I was 14.
"we survived"
Many didn't and even more won't this time, your friend is a genocide supporter
So not voting for genocidal candidates now make genocide support? stop projecting.
The Dems were hellbent on supporting gneocide. People chose to be fine with it, even attacking people who called it out.
The flak we got here for saying for months the Dems need to stop the genocide support to win the election now raises the question whether they were just tactically wrong, or whether they werent really into the genocide themselves. That would explain why now there is efforts to project it on the other people.
At every turn we were told that supporting genocide is better than supporting genocide and homophobia. Saying we should push for a non genocidal candidate, for which there was plenty of time at first, got immediately shut down.
The most consistent position of the Biden/Harris fans was to accept genocide, because that was the strongest criticism raised consistently against them. Now you end up not only having lost the election but having lost the election because you were in support of genocide.
It is no wonder that Trump managed to win, when the center is so morally bankrupt. It is no wonder that there was no way to inspire people to vote for Harris and Biden if the messaging constantly was "yeah we are morally bankrupt and we are also genociders and racists, but we are less than the other side. This is as good as we allow to happen".
This is on the Democrat elites and their supporters. Own up to it instead of projecting the blame.
Democrats: Support Israel, say they want the conflict to stop and a two States solution. Want to send weapons to Ukraine. Support minorities in the US.
Republicans: Support the genocide of Palestinians, of Ukrainians and of minorities inside the USA.
Voting for Republicans and not voting (so leaving the door open to them) is supporting genocide.
So every Israel aka genocide supporter had a safe vote with Trump. Everyone who opposes it had no choice with either party.
Funny thing is your friends opinions are popular on lemmy.ml which makes it seem like foreign actors are pushing these talking points. They definitely worked in Trumps favor.
Now the blue MAGA is talking about the election being stolen...
Seriosuly how did you expect to win against Trump by copying Trump? People always chose the original authoritarian nazi asshole over the knock-off copy.
You know what wouldnt have worked in Trumps favor? Stopping the genocide in Gaza. That would have led to a landslide victory for the Dems.
Honestly, probably not really. It'd have likely led to a closer election by winning them Michigan, but the Democrats had a more fundamental problem than very unpopular foreign policy.
What is this supposed to mean? Who is the blue maga?
Who is suggesting copying Trump?
The polls show voters were motivated by inflation. As much as I’d like the people of Palestine to not be safe and thrive, I literally don’t know anyone irl that considered that when voting. But the way it is pushed on lemmy you’d think it is Iran voting for Americas next president.
Keeps allowing Trump to rise? What does he expect the Dems to do?
I don't agree with him, but I think he's expecting them to support liberal progressive policies. Seems to be taking the stance of "if we can't improve things it's better to watch it all burn rather than slowly rot".
Tell him that not voting to convince them to run liberal progressive policies won't work. You can't play Mexican standoff because the Dems have an out: the center voters.
The article says otherwise.
I'm not OP so I don't actually know him so I can't tell him anything, although I do know one person like that. As for your point I'm not sure that actually follows since those center voters didn't show up to save Harris this time. If the DNC keeps losing elections at some point, assuming we're all still here and we even still have elections, they will have to try something different. It's a very risky play but I also can't say it won't work.
Harris relied on the left showing up for their rights and for democracy. That was a ton of her campaign. And the left didn't show up. If they don't show up for that, they won't show up for anything. They will try something different and that's going all in on the center voter, who actually show up.
I replied to your other comment where you said basically the same thing, but the short version is there clearly isn't enough center voters for that to be a winning strategy. If they try that next election (If there even is a next election) it's going to be an even more lopsided victory for the Republicans.
See my other response. It's the other way around, there isn't enough left (or rather, if they can't show up for their own human fucking rights and mfing democracy, they will never never never show up for literally anything). The center is the big juicy middle that exists, that Trump appealed to, who actually show up, whose votes are worth double (because it's a vote for you and a vote taken away from the other party), and where elections are won.
There's left wing economic policies as well. Running on anti-monoploy and increased taxes on the rich, would be an excellent way to go further left and is exactly I think what a lot of people were looking for this election. Ignoring the economy is never a winning strategy unless the economy is already doing really well which it very much isn't.
Yes, but the left never shows up. If they can't show up for their own human rights, they will never never never show up. The Dems will never, ever put themselves into a situation where they rely on the left voters ever again, because they never show up. Harris said she'd tax the rich, and the left didn't show up.
I have no idea how you are missing what I'm saying. The economy is center policy. Yes yes yes. The Dems will go hard on the economy for the center voter. They will follow Bill Clinton's "it's the economy, stupid". That's how Bill Clinton won, by going to center. That's what the Dems will do in the future, focus on the economy to win the center voter. Again, that is center policy, not left.
You’re right. I don’t buy this narrative that the dems lost because they were left enough. The polls show voters were motivated by inflation and thought Biden’s progressive policies were to blame.
They tried that this time. They basically told the left to fuck off and die. Moving to the right has very publicly failed.
They literally told the left to come out for abortion rights and to save democracy. If the left doesn't come out for that then 1) they will literally never show up, or 2) they don't exist. Take your pick. Either the dems will never rely on the left showing up ever again. Kiss any left policy goodbye. They will go hard to the center. Clinton was right "it's the economy stupid".
They had you at Dick Cheney.
Yup there it is lol! Strawman central.
They could have appointed an AG that wasn't useless on purpose, for starters.
Well Biden for example could've done a much better job actually ~~persecuting~~ prosecuting him for his crimes. He can do that as the head of the Executive branch.
Prosecute is probably the word you're looking for, but I wouldn't mind a bit of persecution being mixed in. Better than just letting him walk.
Lmao good catch.