this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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[–] Schmoo 193 points 2 weeks ago (47 children)

The reality is even worse. They're going to "learn" all the wrong lessons. They will shift further to the right, like they always do.

[–] leadore@lemmy.world 28 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (7 children)

Yep, every time Dems can't get enough votes from the left to win, because they aren't "left/pure enough" for them, what they learn is to shift to the right to find votes.

Whereas since voters on the right will always vote for the one with the R by their name even if they don't think the candidate is "right enough", their party learns that it doesn't have to move to the left to find enough votes and stays to the right or moves even further to the right.

[–] myrrh@ttrpg.network 36 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

...you don't win over conservatives by offering light-conservatism, but the democratic party have run the same playbook since 1992...

[–] Blooper@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The only way to win over conservatives is a full-throated embrace of fascism. Turns them out like crazy.

[–] myrrh@ttrpg.network 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

...the funny counterpart is that when liberals run a full-throated embrace of populism, their greatest threat isn't the surge of new progressive supporters, but establishment democrats desperately afraid of losing conservatives who'd never support them anyway...

[–] timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I don't think you understand their point. Republicans always turn out to vote for their candidate. Then they win (at least a good portion of the time) and they vote in primaries and move the party further right. For any evidence just look at the past 2 decades.

Whereas the left just decides to sit out and therefore Dems lose (or only win at odd times.) They can't count on leftist/apathetic voters, so they go towards where they think they can get votes (ie. people who always vote and if they do convert enough they are profiting by gaining one vote for them and removing one from Republicans.)

Now everyone here is saying it's soooo obvious that it's a poor strategy but is there any introspection on behalf of the left/apathetic? How has withholding your vote or not voting in primaries gone? It's been done for years and society has moved so, so far away from leftist goals no?

So their point is that it probably is a mix- surely the Dems need to actually run on popular policy and leftists/apathetic need to suck it up, vote in all elections, and vote for the best candidate. Pick your preferred candidate in the primary and then vote for the Democratic candidate in the general, no matter what (well- barring something egregious like...being anything like Trump.) Once Dems actually have power, you can keep pushing left. But if people just sit out, you're not gonna be counted. Decades of that is proof.

Edit- maybe you mean you can't win the center over with conservatism-lite. Maybe that's true, maybe not. But someone mentioned Bernie finished behind Harris in Vermont so I don't know that it's a maxim.

[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

Republicans always turn out to vote for their candidate

Ever wonder why that's the case?

[–] Freefall@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Mindless sheep sycophant party that abuses the system to stay relivent VS super-diverse big tent party than "takes the high road" and it is still almost 50/50....tells you where the people actually stand and how badly the broken system empowers the shitty minority. Oh, before "huurrrrddduuuurrrrr but popular vote dduuurrrrrrr"...that is how many people of each ideology VOTED not how many there are. Glad I could clarify the obvious for you smooth brain twits that think you have a point.

[–] inv3r510n@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The popular vote that trump won in addition to the electoral college? That popular vote? Democrats (the party apparatus) need to come to term with themselves and look in the mirror for answers as to why there’s a second trump term on the horizon.

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[–] Pringles@lemm.ee 21 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

At this point you might as well start a third party.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 10 points 2 weeks ago

Some kind of Democratic Socialist Party of America maybe.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

This way Gore can lose all over again!

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Imagine thinking the DNC will ever push another Gore. If they were willing to do that we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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[–] Resonosity@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

And this is one of the reasons why people shifted Republican in this last election.

If the Democratic party won't represent Democratic ideals, then out of either anger or apathy, their base will vote for the party that can do it better, Republicans, or not vote at all.

I agree with a lot of people on Lemmy that the average American is an idiot, and our shortening attention spans coupled with our changing media diets isn't helping with that, but I see these as features not bugs.

Americans in general like their shiny toys, and one of the best ways to capture their attention is by politicians giving concessions and offering things that will benefit their lives. Think carrots on sticks more than sticks themselves.

I will never stop hanging most of the blame on the Democratic party for leading us to today conclusion after Tuesday.

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 17 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

People didn't shift Republican in this election. Trump got about the same number of votes as he did against Biden.

[–] daltotron@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

no, but everyone wants to pretend that everyone became ultra-super racist idiot trump voters over the course of 4 years because they listened to a lot of joe rogan, rather than listening to a bunch of CNN like good little vote piggies. see one infographic of a bunch of red arrows everywhere and then everyone loses their fucking minds and decides that the only way to win the next election is to become more racist. if only they tack to the right harder, then they'll win, they just need to be more racist, see, and then it'll work!

and the problem is that this is exactly the lesson they want to learn. it's the lesson they have an interest in learning because they are also a right wing party. maybe it's because there's just gonna be more posters running around two days after the election because this is the top drama and it's eating up time they otherwise would've spent talking about celebrity drama or whatever, but we can talk for years about how the democrats, anywhere else, would be a center-right party of neoliberal warmongers that are fundamentally unwilling to give positive material concessions to basically any of their voters. as soon as the election gets called, that all vanishes, suddenly they've run the most perfect campaign of all time, and really, it was the voters that were at fault, and if anything, they should be more racist. it's not that the economy sucked, that they didn't present an enthusiastic, optimistic, or hell, coherent, vision of the future. no, it's because they just weren't racist enough.

it's 2016 all over again. the punishments will continue until morale improves, time is a flat circle, and I keep falling down the stairs.

do'h

[–] TheFriar@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Wait, you think the republicans represent democratic ideals better…?

[–] MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 weeks ago

They pretend better

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

There is no way to read or infer that from their comment without some serious preconceived notions. That person made a statement of fact. They did not say anything about their opinion on the goodness or badness of that statement of fact.

[–] TheFriar@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

If the Democratic party won't represent Democratic ideals, then out of either anger or apathy, their base will vote for the party that can do it better, Republicans

That’s where I’m getting that exact sentiment

[–] Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

While I wouldn't wish for it to happen, part of me wonders if Trump does start executing top level Dems if that might cause them to wake the fuck up and start actually trying to win these things by listening to what people actually want. Like, if the choice is "win or die", maybe they'll start playing for keeps. Personally I wouldn't shed a tear for people like pelosi, Schumer, the Clintons, etc... but if they come for Bernie or the squad I'm joining the resistance

[–] wpb@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

And you'll be the bad guy for not wanting to vote for a right wing party.

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