this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
334 points (88.5% liked)

United States | News & Politics

7319 readers
539 users here now

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 132 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

He's right. In a declining capitalist state like the current US, workers want change. In the absence of a genuine working class party that correctly blames capitalism and the capitalist class for a revolution, you get a "radical" capitalist-funded party that at least points the blame at someone — marginalized people.

The dems only offer to preserve the status quo, and no one fucking wants the status quo.

Get organized. Liberal democracies in the imperial core historically always slide to fascism.

[–] RubicTopaz@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (4 children)

It's worth noting that "fascism" specifically is a eurocentric — or even more specifically a 20th century-centric — ideology. You could argue the US has always been "fascist", just that the fascism has been focused on people outside it — the countries it constantly wages wars on. Still a good way to describe the direction declining capitalist states are headed to, I guess.

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You could argue the US has always been “fascist”, just that the fascism has been focused on people outside it

Hitler was inspired on how to treat the Jews, Romani, disabled, and queers, based on how we treated Native Americans and Black Americans. He saw the country doing so well in the world stage excluding millions from the same status and privilege as the normalized default, and thought it would work for Germany and Europe, by force.

America was founded by rich white oligarchs, it was never going to support anything good without a lot of people letting go unless they died.

EDIT: Sorry if you get double pinged, server had a hiccup as I was posting.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 month ago

Fascism is Capitalism in decay, the violent immune system employed by the Capitalist class. A great work on fascism is Blackshirts and Reds. I can provide a longer Marxism intro reading list if you'd like, but Blackshirts is a great start.

[–] joostjakob@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Even here in Europe where there are genuine left wing parties, where there's proportional representation, where we have mistly functional education, labour class people are voting for folks who blame poor people and immigrants for everything that goes wrong. I think part of the blame is with tabloid style media and social media magnifying formerly fringe opinion. Just saying that having a real alternative for the populist right, might not be enough.

[–] rodolfo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Any example at hand of these liberal democracies that hystorically always slide to fascism? What does imperial core mean?

[–] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Primarily referring to Germany and Italy's descent into fascism, and we're currently seeing this happen in France, and now in the US. These countries only see a shift to the left with an external force, like Scandinavian states giving concessions to the working class when the nearby USSR posed the threat of a good example — and by extension, the threat of a working class revolution; of course, these concessions are gradually being taken away now.

Imperial core countries refers to colonizer countries that now control financial institutions like the IMF and World Bank, and depend on the continued exploitation of former colonies.

I specify liberal democracies in imperial core countries because we have seen limited successes for the left outside it. Like Allende coming to power in Chile (before being overthrown in a US-backed coup 2 years later), or now Lula and Claudia coming to power in Brazil and Mexico.

[–] rodolfo@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Sorry, I'm italian. We've been fascists forever. The partito comunista italiano that wrote after ww2 the antifascist Italian constitution, with other parties obviously, had to allow the birth of movimento sociale Italiano: too many fascists, impossible to manage the situation, they had to organize. Although there are signs of significative active civil resistance, the matter it's that Italian people are fascist. Full stop. Also Italy has never been a liberal democracy, nor a fully free democracy, with usa helping terrorism (mainly, you guessed it, the far right one) during the 70s for example, and heavily meddling in our politics, at least until Enrico berlinguer was alive. I mean. We got the pope, for 2000 years, approx. You're invited to live in a country whose parliament sends laws to Vaticano, before discussing them; just in case, you know, they have a say.

Finally, being one of the few leftists left (I liked the pun) in Europe, I'm just waiting for putin to die, he'll have to, because I have no other choice than waiting. I just hope that USA won't wage the nth war in between, as they already helped the xenophobic nationalist far right Europeans movements a bit too much, in recent years.

So no, I cannot agree with you. I hope you see i'm disagreeing in a civil manner.

Have a nice day, thank you for your time and kind response.

PS USA crying about Trump? I mean, we had Berlusconi in politics for ~20 years. Been there, done that, ~25 years earlier.

Edit I hope I don't have to remind anyone that modern dictatorship was born in Italy, under the name of fascism. Yeah, keep hoping

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's not that liberal democracies always slide, specifically, it's that Capitalist states always slide, and this is heightened by being in the Global North. Global North countries brutally explioit Global South countries via Imperialism, by relying on vastly under-paid labor and selling it in the Global North for higher prices.

Fascism is Capitalism in decay, the violent immune system employed by the Capitalist class. A great work on fascism is Blackshirts and Reds. I can provide a longer Marxism intro reading list if you'd like, but Blackshirts is a great start.

I also recommend Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, and the famous Yellow Parenti Speech (a small excerpt here.

[–] tiredturtle@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

It's an interesting ending to an otherwise fine comment. Bernie would slide the US towards liberal democracy, further from fascism

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That's not how Capitalism or fascism works. Capitalism is in constant decay, this decay leads to sharpening contradictions and fascism is deployed to protect Capitalist interests. Bernie would not end Capitalism, he may only slow it's rate of descent, not stop it or reverse it. A great work on fascism is Blackshirts and Reds. I can provide a longer Marxism intro reading list if you'd like, but Blackshirts is a great start.

[–] tiredturtle@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

I know, no need to worry. My comment didn't portray Bernie as some anticapitalist Jesus who can single-handedly force a revolution if that needed clarification

[–] rodolfo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Imo, that fact that people voted and vote in the USA doesn't mean that USA isn't a fascist country. Just look at how bullishly they waged wars, and made millions of people suffer torture, pain, abandonment. They're the epitome of "me ne frego!"