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On prison abolition (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by needthosepylons@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

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You're a prison abolitionist. You're in a high stakes discussion where you have to answer seriously and be convincing.

Someone asks you : "yeah, but what are we to do with people breaking the law, then? What will you replace prisons with ?"

What will you answer?

Edit : Thanks a lot for your answer, they were very interesting and reflecting different ways to frame a world without prisons.

Except from one or two edgelord hot takes, of course.

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[–] Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Seize the illegally obtained wealth, pay civil damages to the victims and rehabilitation program including education and psychological support.

I'm fine saying that people like Dutroux, Breivick or Abdeslam shall not be out before a very long-time. However, they're not the average criminal.

Let me return you the question, there is that single-mother who struggle to pay the rent, and debt collector knocked her door a few times, a drug dealer ask her if she can keep a package for them and that someone will pick-it up tomorow night and give her 500 € in exchange, does that woman (Which is now part of drug dealer network) desserve jail-time ? Wouldn't giving her the mean to pay the rent prevent her from needing to take part of drug traffic ? That drunk person has a fight in the train station, the other fighter falls on the track as the train arrive, now a person died. Does the person desserve to spend 5-10 years in jail ? Wouldn't Rehab work better ?

I'll go even further and say that welfare program, teacher, psychiatrist and some other do way more at preventing crime than police, jail and hard on crime policies

[–] iii@mander.xyz 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Wouldn't giving her the mean to pay the rent prevent her from needing to take part of drug traffic ?

From context I gather you're from Belgium. Isn't there already OCMW/CPAS for free housing?

What do you do when it's the single mom in free housing that just wants 500EUR extra cash? Find political consensus to give her a bigger free house, with a pool, and a credit card?

[–] Tenniswaffles@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

From context I gather you're from Belgium. Isn't there already OCMW/CPAS for free housing?

Just because they're from one country (assuming they actually are,) doesn't mean they're speaking from the perspective of that country. Most people will assume if you're speaking English you're from America or some such.

What do you do when it's the single mom in free housing that just wants 500EUR extra cash? Find political consensus to give her a bigger free house, with a pool, and a credit card?

You're just using a completely different scenario to move the goalposts. I believe that they're point was that imprisoning people for committing a crime in pursuit of basic survival is pretty fucking shitty.

[–] iii@mander.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You're just using a completely different scenario to move the goalposts.

How so? If you abolish prisons, they're abolished for every scenario

[–] Tenniswaffles@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago

From the original comment:

I'm fine saying that people like Dutroux, Breivick or Abdeslam shall not be out before a very long-time. However, they're not the average criminal.

Obviously they aren't for complete prison abolishment.