Our players are young and I think keeping their confidence and belief high is important. It might be frustrating as a fan to see few changes, but a culture where one poor game or one mistake will see the manager swap you out for an unproven player or otherwise give you less responsibility is not sustainable.

[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

But we're not talking about one game. Since Ødegaard got injured, we've been disjointed and struggled for meaningful possession in the final third. And don't get me started on the rest of midfield. Rice is decent doing box to box but he's a better DM where his limited passing isn't such an issue and Partey can't even defend any more.

I'm not asking for sweeping changes, I'm just asking for the manager to react. Partey has had ten games to prove himself and it's not working, let's move on. The same with all the things we've tried to plug the Ødegaard hole.

The game last night was a chance to try out what we were gonna do against Liverpool and we wasted it to see how ineffective we could make Havertz.

The problems are there for us all to see. The eyes say it and the numbers confirm it.

[–] nuggsy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Apologies, this is going to be a little long...

I understand where you are coming from. It is frustrating to see us look so listless and lackadaisical at times. I think that frustration is born of there being an expectation for the team to perform to a higher level, especially after challenging for the title in the last two seasons. I think we (and Arteta) have set the bar so high now that anything that isn't close is scrutinised. Having high aspirations is perfectly fine, I want us to push and be title contenders and finally win it. Counter to that, It's also valid to point out flaws and critique the team when warranted. Both are true.

I agree, there have been multiple games this season where we've looked far under par. But, I feel like that all fits within the context of the season so far. We lost Ødegaard the 3rd game into the season. He's one of, if not, our main creative outlet who leads the press and is instrumental in progressing the ball. That's 3 games out of 12 in all competitions. And you're right, we should have brought in someone else who could fill that gap during the window, but I could not tell you why we didn't. Whether that's down to Arteta, Edu or whoever else is responsible for that decision, I don't know, except that there's nothing we can do until January and I hope they have a plan.

As for Nwaneri, Arteta has mentioned that he doesn't want to rush young players in. I also feel like there have been a lot of examples where youngsters were pushed into the limelight too soon and they haven't been able to cope with the pressure. You could put that down to mentality, sure. But, you could just as well point to not setting that player up to succeed. These kids are humans as well and I feel like it's easy for us to get caught up in the moment and forget that they're not robots. Our fan base can also be absolutely ruthless... I used to watch AFTV late 2000's early 2010's and it was brutal at times. It got so bad I stopped watching for my own sanity.

I can see why Arteta may not have played him in this game. Shakhtar sat back and let us pass the ball around and hit on the counter. Maybe Nwaneri isn't ready for the physical demand in such an intense game? Nobody by Arteta and the coaching staff are going to know that. That doesn't mean he's not good enough to train with the first team. He's still only 17. It's a lot of pressure to place such an important role for a youngster, especially in the context of the game against Shakhtar.

Then, you have the added obscurity around the new CL format and what is needed to progress into the next stages. How many points is the benchmark to progress? Can you get away with playing more defensively and go for a draw to rest some players? Do you have to go all out attack to make the most of your position in the table? If the latter is the case, which is seems to be, then it's like playing in a more intense premier league season with what feels like even less guarantees. With all the injuries, we don't have the squad depth of Man City to play so intense every single game. Throwing Nwaneri into that at the same time could be detrimental to his progress. The other downside is instead of preparing against 3 teams twice, you have to come up with a new game plans for 8 different opponents.

I got a little sidetracked, but I feel like injuries have definitely made an impact on team cohesion. We lost White and Ødegaard to injury who linked up with Saka down the right. Saka has just been so good that, even when he hasn't looked the best, he still manages to get an assist and/or goal. He's an anomaly. Nelli has his moments, but I think we use a set Saka-standard we compare others by, which is unrealistic. He's on a whole other level. Then, Timber got injured now Saka has been out with an injury. That's all the best players on our right side. Calafiori has also been brilliant progressing the ball and getting into good positions and has also now picked up an injury and may not be available against Liverpool.

Then you have the abysmal refereeing we've had to contend with and the two absolutely ridiculous red cards - we've had to continually change the way we've lined up. We went from naming almost the same 11 for the majority of last season to almost a different lineup every match in this season.

[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

First of all, tremendous post. Bloody well done and thanks for taking the time.

I hear you about the apprehension regarding the Champions League but I feel that ignores how bad they've been. Albeit for good reason with the war in Ukraine. Not to mention the fact that we played three defensive midfielders against Bournemouth.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't have the answers and I can't do Arteta's job. But I would like to see him answering questions as opposed to just digging his heels in on his favoured eleven. Gone are the days you can get away with 11 players winning you the league and every member of the squad is vital. We lost a title because Saliba got injured and I feel like we've not learned. Now we're backing ourselves into a corner because we don't have anyone that can do what Ødegaard does, except Nwaneri. Just to add to the Nwaneri thing. Yamal is his age. Wilshere was his age, as was Fabregas. In an ideal world we can ease him in but if we need him now, we need him.

You're absolutely right in saying we have high expectations but these are the expectations based on not only our history but on what Arteta has done. Now it's time for him to push on. We need to be better than last season, not worse. That means more goals scored and less goals conceded because this league is that competitive.

It's not even a question of Arteta being good enough or not, it's just a matter of wanting him to act. See the glaring issues and try and remedy them.

[–] Astrealix@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Tbf, how many fucking defenders have we signed? It's not on Arteta with how many injuries we've had, lol. No Ødegaard cover is definitely on the club and Arteta, but like, at some point we just have to stop having our full backs keep getting injured.

[–] nuggsy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Of course! If anything it felt a little long winded xD. I don't feel like I'm concise enough to get my point across without a block of text.

Just to touch back on the Champions League, since I don't feel like I really said what I was trying to get at. Part of my point around Arteta not playing Nwaneri was Arteta potentially playing it safe due to the changes of the format, as well as Nwaneri's age and the responsibility that entails.

But, it is hard to argue against our recent results. It's disappointing to see how things have played out off the back of how well we ended last year. I can only look at the circumstances around those games and then wonder how things could have panned out. I also feel like International breaks every 3 games hasn't helped the team to find rhythm with all the other difficulties we've faced.

It does feel like Arteta needs to do something, but he and the staff may be struggling just as much as we are to point to a definite answer. Nwaneri seems like he could be it, but maybe that's too much to ask, or he's not ready? I don't know. I do take your point on Fabregas and others and it's hard for us to gauge how good he can be when we haven't really seen him. But, I also want to see what Nwaneri can do, I'm just trying to see things from a different perspective I guess.

It feels like we've been absolutely railed by our fixture list and we still have a few tough games ahead.

[–] bruv99@lemmy.world 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

We struggle so much without odegaard. I feel like Arteta's tactics rely too much on the starting 11 players , any slight team rotation our entire midfield becomes significantly disjointed it's like a complete different team.

[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 1 points 4 weeks ago

I haven't liked the midfield all season. Partey flatters to deceive. This is why I was so excited about Merino coming in and playing in the left 8. It's a position that we've failed to fill and a role we're in desperate need of filling.